Nancy and Sarah talk about the death of Hayden Panatierre at the age of 36, which just so happens to be the age that Marilyn Monroe died. Sarah wants to know why child actors get an exception against laws preventing kids from working. Nancy spills the secrets on how they get babies to cry in the commercials — and it’s sad! The discuss addiction, postpartum depression, domestic abuse, and more.

The ladies also discuss Nancy’s mom, who passed Monday (yesterday as of this writing). Kathy, we miss you already, and we thank you. Now, about that leather jumpsuit …

Free episode: Invite your friends!

Also discussed:

* Nancy in the Morning™️

* Italians are Sarah’s favorite ethnic stereotype

* Dax / Dak, whatever

* Heroes = pre-Mad Men TV programming

* Can a mother come back from losing custody of her children?

* The mysteries of Marilyn Monroe’s death

* Blackout drinking is “suicide for a night”

* Everybody loves Xanax

Plus, that time Nancy slept like a gunshot victim, our favorite Miranda Lambert jams, and much more.

You know Smoke ‘Em has a YouTube channel, right? Where we post things like…

Don’t be a dope. Become a paid subscriber.

Has Sarah mentioned she has a book coming out Sept 29, and that pre-orders matter? Well, as Alanis says, you oughta know …

PRE-ORDER THAT BAD BOY.

Episode Notes:

“Hayden Panetierre is Dead: Star of Nashville and Heroes Dies at 36,” New York Times obituary

This is Me: A Reckoning, by Hayden Panittiere

To the Bridge: A True Story of Motherhood and Murder, by Nancy Rommelmann

What’s in your hot box?

Sarah:

Nancy:

Nancy and Sarah discuss the Hulu/FX series The Shards, the new Bret Easton Ellis and Ryan Murphy jam. The 1981 LA vibes are right in Sarah’s sweet spot (Bonne Bell! Xanadu! The Go-Gos!). For Nancy, not so much, maybe because she lived it. They talk ennui and heroin overdoses and young people trying to prove nothing matters. Then it’s onto the recent shocking Perez Hilton livestream. Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face, in this case (all cases?), tragically.

Also discussed:

* Nightie Day!

* “My mom’s poochie.”

* Studio 54 days

* Rich Angeleno kids = meh

* Smoke ‘Em: Banned in Belarus!

* Sarah doesn’t read Nancy’s existing books but asks her to write others

* Wes Bentley’s eyebrows

* Rich kid names (Homer, Igby, Kaia)

* “Touch it!”

* Who IS Perez Hilton?

* Attention monsters of the Internet

* Women with long and thick silver hair, swoon

Plus, This Week in Kyle Chandler, a dystopic LA short story from Nancy (NB: which was just too gd long to post; it’s “X-Girl” in the collection), and much more!

Attention please: Send us your letters! Subscribe to the YouTube. Buy Sarah’s book! Sign up for Sarah’s Substack LOVE ANYWAY. Do something.

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Nancy tells the story of a destroyed Jamie Slovak showing up in her yard at 6am on a June morning in 1988. His brother Hillel, guitarist for the Red Hot Chili Peppers, had just overdosed, and Jamie, who spent a lot of time at Nancy’s West Hollywood house those days, needed comfort. Nancy has not seen Jamie in decades and was glad to learn just now that he is involved in this doc, which came out earlier this year.

Episode Notes:

“‘The Shards’ Soundtrack Is Incredible – Here’s Every Song From The First Two Episodes” (Elle/Yahoo)

“Ryan Murphy and Bret Easton Ellis Team Up for FX’s Predictably Excess-Soaked Tale of Prep-School Sex, Drugs and Murder” (Hollywood Reporter)

The Bad Mother: A Novel, by Nancy Rommelmann

“Perez Hilton ‘Will Require Surgery’ After Live Stream Incident, Family Demands Media ‘Cease Photographing Perez’s Children’” (Variety)

Official Family Statement on PerezHilton.com

This Week in Kyle Chandler:

What’s in your hot box?

Nancy: Nike Training Club app

Sarah:

There’s this movie everyone is talking about, have you heard of it? The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan, he of the sweeping historical sagas. Sarah’s theory is that it’s the male Barbie, with something for everyone. Whether the ultimate hero’s journey is still relevant in the age of TikTok might/might not be answered by the movie taking in $727+ million in its first 12 days. Nancy and Sarah debate whether the three-hour film is too long (no/yes), whether it needed the Eliot Page character (yes/no), and did Nolan drop the ball on the Sirens (YES!!!!). Sarah delivers some light and loving pushback on the recent episode about Fauci. Then, what do people say behind your back? Sarah and Nancy ponder. Also, we introduce a new segment, "This Week in Kyle Chandler” because … Kyle Chandler.

Also discussed:

* Grease is the word.

* Kaboodles are still a thing

* Mary Katharine Ham is a star

* “It’s gross how cute you are.”

* “Fauci was rubbing it …”

* Cat Damon!!

* You’re welcome back any time, Scott Greenfield

* Sarah refuses to pronounce Ross Douthat’s name properly until he comes on the pod

* No sex for Circe

* Samantha Morton is not Emily Watson …

* “Sarah with the tits, Nancy with the eyes”

Plus, why Nancy and Sarah are taking a road trip to a ranch near Austin, Nancy on that weird Stockard Channing movie, a hot box where every relationship is transactional, and much more!

Paid subscribers get a picture of a cat that looks like Matt Damon, what more can we say?

“I wonder if I can get people to click over and subscribe to the Smoke ‘Em YouTube?”

Episode Notes:

Cast your female podcasters (L to R): Frenchie, Rizzo, Marty

Totally appropriate after-school movie in 1973 …

“It Is Banal, Bland, Thin and Didactic. We Can’t Stop Talking About It,” Ross Douthat on The Odyssey (New York Times)

ICYMI the indomitable Mary Katharine Ham (full epi here):

“Fauci and the Fifth,” by Scott Greenfield (Simple Justice blog)

“What's the bad thing people say about you?,” by Esther (The Spike Substack)

Never sleep on Helen Lewis …

“First Look Inside Men’s Journal’s Summer Entertainment Special With Kyle Chandler” (Men’s Journal)

What’s in your hot box?

Nancy:

There’s a Bear in the House! by Walter Kirn (audio)

Regarding the bear that showed up at Nancy’s Mom’s…

Sarah:

There are a lot of things Dr. Anthony Fauci might have said during his Senate hearing yesterday, about what he thought and did and did not do and might have done differently during the COVID-19 pandemic. Instead, the former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and lead member of the White House COVID-19 Response Team invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent more than 90 times. Is this shocking? Predictable? Irresponsible? Dangerous? Yes and yes and yes and yes.

With Sarah busy recording the audiobook for her upcoming memoir, The Only Thing There Is To Want, Nancy asked perennial straight-shooter Mary Katharine Ham to come talk about Fauci, his “cartoonish self-absorption,” the political marketplace that has us tilt toward hero worship, and the one official who maybe kinda sorta admitted she was wrong about lockdowns.

Also discussed:

* Must be nice to have never heard of the Tate brothers

* The “personality disorder economy” that gives us a Dr. Fauci (and a Candace Owens)

* Did Mary Katharine and Nancy adhere to the government-mandated COVID protocols? No, no they did not

* John Fetterman’s statement seemed pretty close to the mark for many of us

* What sort of hubris has you writing your diary on a government computer?

* A small nod of respect for Deborah Birx

* Women watch true crime on TV. Men watch…

* Mary Katharine and Nancy come up with a new hustle

Plus, what is lost when you catastrophize, love and props for Liz Wolfe, Mary Katharine re-reads a book she hates, and much more!

Did you watch Young Washington in anticipation of talking about it on First Sunday Zoom is this Sunday, August 2, 8pm ET/5pm PT? There’s still time! Paid subscribers get link day-of.

Nancy and Sarah discuss a two-part HBO docuseries called “What Happened, Brittany Murphy?” Did it just come out? No. But it’s compelling and relevant to many Smoke ‘Em hot topics (celebrity, sociopathy, addiction, true-crime). As Sarah texted Nancy, “It = our lane.”

The movie tackles the mysterious 2009 death of actress Brittany Murphy, who hit the scene with Clueless and went on to 8 Mile and rom-coms like Just Married (when she was dating Ashton Kutcher) before plunging into a career spiral. That involved a boyfriend, Simon Monjack, who proves more sinister than the man he pretends to be.

The conversation includes tangents on child actors, Marilyn Monroe, and what kind of role Murphy played in a relationship with a walking red flag who would end up sucking her money, her self-esteem, and eventually her soul.

Also discussed:

* “Sienna” is a color?

* Sarah has adorable feet, Nancy has great up-tops [NSFW]

* 8 Mile is a banger

* Props to Perez Hilton for admitting his despicable behavior

* Nancy says the “f” word (no, not that one); Sarah nevertheless objects

* Howard Stern is terrified of women

* Nancy and Sarah both weigh 130 pounds

* The undeniable hotness of peak Ashton Kutcher

* Six Degrees of Nancy Rommelmann strikes again: Demi Moore edition

* Frozen orange juice concentrate, remembered

* Sweetened condensed milk, remembered

* The power of Matt Drudge

* Dallas Cowboys quarterback Dak Prescott = good dude

* Don’t sleep on the latest Andy Mills joint

Plus, the iconic Marilyn dresses we’d like to wear, Denzel’s masculine energy directed at the right targets, and much more!

NOTE: Nancy is scheduled to appear on FOX’s “America’s Newsroom” Monday, 7/19, 10:15am ET.

OTHER NOTE: Sarah’s new Substack, Love Anyway, launches soon and is FREE.

We’ll be any Marilyn Monroe you like if you become a paid subscriber.

Small note: Could maybe use a bra.

Nancy and Sarah discuss the latest Atlantic cover story, “The End of Reading Is Here” by Rose Horowitch, who is too young to be writing a story this good (not that that’s relevant). The essay, which provides a historical and statistical overview of the written word, is something of a cold shower: “The literary era will prove to be a brief interlude between the oral and the digital ages.”

We talk deep reading, AI, the joys of intellectual discovery, the rise of audiobooks, how to turn a kid off reading (Ivanhoe), and more.

Also discussed:

* Nancy vs. Sarah: Who wins in a cage match? VOTE NOW

* Emergency self-tanner recommendations

* Smoking Diaries and Pie Talk are back. What is this, 2024?

* Mike Pesca, we salute you.

* AI: Nancy wants to know, does it bleed?

* We have a YouTube channel. Obviously, you subscribe …

* Nancy adorably mispronounces “papyrus” (19-20 min)

* A Clockwork Orange is NOT written in Olde English

* “Screw the canon.”

* The beauty of math

* High school: boys like The Odyssey, girls like To Kill a Mockingbird

* Reading Updike for the first time, swoon

* Sarah apologizes to the ghost of David Wallace

* Lindsey Graham, RIP

* Lindsay Graham, aka Sarah’s ex, once insulted Sarah’s self-tanning, and she never forgot it.

Plus, thoughts on AI character Tilly Norwood, Erica Jong’s mothering fails, Sarah wants a shirt that reads I BLAME MOYNIHAN and much more!

REMINDER: Sarah is launching a FREE Substack, LOVE ANYWAY. Don’t miss out.

The end of podcasting is nowhere near, especially when you become a paid subscriber.

You know what would make our YouTube channel better? Yeah you do

Nancy and Sarah discuss Graham Platner and an explosive Politico story accusing him of sexual assault. Do you think social media has opinions on this? Do you think people will show consistency, calm and rationality in their discussion of this sensitive topic? Of course not! But then, what would we talk about on this pod?

Also discussed:

* Nancy’s Flock of Seagulls hair

* Partisanship is undeniably part of this story

* Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde was the first blackout book

* The IG messages we wish Jenny Racicot had not deleted

* We are all unreliable narrators

* When therapists don’t go on record …

* New York Times vs. Politico

* The return of mom jeans

* The indoctrination camp of BlueSky

* Man up, Graham Platner!

* The award for “running your head into a brick wall” on Twitter goes to …

* AIPAC, the new dog whistle

* Kyle Chander: TEXT US.

Plus, we need a “men yell at us” supercut, Stephen King’s woke daughter, a breezy summer beach read, and more!

ANNOUNCEMENT! Sarah is starting a Substack, called Love Anyway, and it’s free. It’s launching mid-July. Sign up here, or you’re gonna get left behind, and you’ll be sad.

Also sad is when you aren’t a paid subscriber to this pod.

Plus, Sarah says goodbye to one of the people who built her. RIP, Dave Barranco.

Are you proud of America? It can be a complicated question. Sarah and Nancy tackle the topic of patriotism and whether American is an unfinished experiment or a beautiful place unlike any other country. (But wait: Why can’t it be both?) We talk about a Tom Hanks-produced Netflix series on the nation’s founding, The American Experiment, which shows how much in-fighting and compromise were part of the country’s creation. The series also introduces us to a peg-legged lady killer who wrote much of the Constitution (Gouverneur Morris) and confirms that Alexander Hamilton was, indeed, a hottie.

Nancy just moved into her new pad, so you’ll have to excuse a) the slight echo and b) the three (?) different times she had to leave to attend to a mover.

Also discussed:

* True or False: Sarah is a flower girl at Taylor Swift’s wedding

* True or False: Semiquincentennial is a real word

* Happy graduation, Megan!

* The downward mobility of college grads

* That time Sarah doubled-down on becoming un-hireable

* American Dream: Beautiful or unfinished? Let’s debate!

* “They tried to take away football”

* JD Vance, Ben Rhodes, Zohran Mamdani, Al Gore

* “What’s a buggy whip?”

* The Scots love Boston

* Croats > Brits

* James Madison isn’t black???

* George Washington: Amazing man, maybe not the most fun at the kegger

* Writers who get our love: Emily Yoffe, Pamela Colloff, William Finnegan

* How to make Nancy swoon? Tell her you know her byline

Plus, Avocado toast and doomsday, Sarah at the World Cup, Nancy only does the “F” in Marry, Fuck, Kill, and much more!

REMINDER: First Sunday Zoom, July 5, 8pm ET/5pm PT.

Also two questions: Are you in college? And do you cover your heart during the National Anthem? Let know in the comments or — even better — tell us yourself on Sunday.

Do you hate America, or are you willing to become a paid subscriber?