Hepatitis B is a tiny virus that causes hundreds of thousands of deaths from liver disease and cancer each year. The vaccine against it became the first of many milestones: it was the first viral protein subunit vaccine, the first recombinant vaccine, and the first vaccine to prevent a type of cancer.

In this episode, Jacob and Saloni follow the trail of strange jaundice outbreaks that scientists traced to a stealthy liver virus, how scientists turned one viral surface protein into a lifesaving shot for newborns, and how it was all built upon breakthroughs in immunology.

Hard Drugs is a new podcast from Works in Progress and Coefficient Giving about medical innovation presented by Saloni Dattani and Jacob Trefethen.

You can watch or listen on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.

Chapters:
0:00:00 Introducing the hepatitis B vaccine
0:15:46 The mysterious trail of jaundice outbreaks
0:28:03 How a tiny virus causes cirrhosis and liver cancer
0:53:19 Maurice Hilleman's purified hep B vaccine
1:17:36 Turning the hep B vaccine recombinant
1:29:14 The impact of hep B vaccination
1:39:27 The 19th century battle for immunology
2:01:34 How the body makes an almost infinite number of antibodies
2:30:57 How subunit vaccines took over
2:45:33 Conclusion

Saloni’s substack newsletter: https://www.scientificdiscovery.dev/

Jacob’s blog: https://blog.jacobtrefethen.com/

Books:

• Paul Offit (2007) Vaccinated: One Man's Quest to Defeat the World's Deadliest Diseases
• Arthur M Silverstein (2009) A history of immunology
• Ronald W Ellis (1993) Hepatitis B Vaccines in Clinical Practice
• Sally Smith Hughes (2011) Genentech: The beginnings of biotech

Articles:

• Timothy M. Block et al. (2016) A historical perspective on the discovery and elucidation of the hepatitis B virus https://doi.org/10.1016/j.antiviral.2016.04.012
• Naijuan Yao et al. (2022) Incidence of mother-to-child transmission of hepatitis B in relation to maternal peripartum antiviral prophylaxis: A systematic review and meta-analysis https://doi.org/10.1111/aogs.14448
• Jill Koshiol et al. (2019) Beasley’s 1981 paper: The power of a well-designed cohort study to drive liver cancer research and prevention https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5866222/
• William J. McAleer et al. (1984) Human hepatitis B vaccine from recombinant yeast https://doi.org/10.1038/307178a0
• Chunfeng Qu et al. (2014) Efficacy of Neonatal HBV Vaccination on Liver Cancer and Other Liver Diseases over 30-Year Follow-up of the Qidong Hepatitis B Intervention Study: A Cluster Randomized Controlled Trial https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pmed.1001774
• Anthony R Rees (2020) Understanding the human antibody repertoire https://doi.org/10.1080/19420862.2020.1729683

Before vaccines became routine, they were risky experiments. In this episode, Jacob and Saloni travel back to the world of smallpox, cowpox, and cow-based “vaccine farms” to see how scientists stumbled toward the first vaccines against infectious diseases: smallpox, rabies, TB, polio, and more. Through the stories of milkmaids and aristocrats, secret lab notebooks, microscopes and cell culture, they explore how trial and error turned gruesome folk practices into the science of immunization, and how it all began with a single pustule.

Hard Drugs is a new podcast from Works in Progress and Coefficient Giving about medical innovation presented by Saloni Dattani and Jacob Trefethen.

You can watch or listen on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.

Saloni’s substack newsletter: https://www.scientificdiscovery.dev/

Jacob’s blog: https://blog.jacobtrefethen.com/

Books:

• Gerald Geison (1995) The private science of Louis Pasteur
• Thomas D. Brock (1998) Robert Koch: a life in medicine and bacteriology
• Mervyn Susser and Zena Stein (2009) Eras in epidemiology : the evolution of ideas
• Angela Leung (2011) Chapter: “Variolation” and vaccination in late Imperial China, ca. 1570–1911. History of vaccine development by Stanley Plotkin
• Florian Horaud (2011) Chapter: Viral vaccines and cell substrate. History of vaccine development by Stanley Plotkin
• Samuel Katz (2011) Chapter: The role of tissue culture in vaccine development. History of vaccine development by Stanley Plotkin
• Hervé Bazin (2011) Chapter: Pasteur and the birth of vaccines made in the laboratory. History of vaccine development by Stanley Plotkin

Articles:

• Andrew Shattock et al. (2024) Contribution of vaccination to improved survival and health: modelling 50 years of the Expanded Programme on Immunization https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)00850-X/fulltext
• Saloni Dattani (2020) The story of Viktor Zhdanov https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-story-of-viktor-zhdanov/
• José Esparza et al. (2020) Early smallpox vaccine manufacturing in the United States https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2020.05.037
• Paula Gottdenker (1979) Francesco Redi and the fly experiments https://www.jstor.org/stable/44450950
• Donald Angus Gillies (2016) Establishing causality in medicine and Koch’s postulates
• Burt A Folkart (1993) Dr. Albert Sabin, Developer of Oral Polio Vaccine, Dies https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-03-04-mn-283-story.html
• Saloni Dattani (2025) Measles leaves children vulnerable to other diseases for years https://ourworldindata.org/measles-increases-disease-risk

Acknowledgements:

• Aria Babu, editor at Works in Progress
• Graham Bessellieu, video editor
• Abhishaike Mahajan, cover art
• Atalanta Arden-Miller, art direction
• David Hackett, composer

Works in Progress & Coefficient Giving

What if you could design a protein never seen in nature? In this episode, Jacob and Saloni explore how researchers are using new tools like RFDiffusion, AlphaFold, and ProteinMPNN to ‘hallucinate’ entirely novel proteins: designing them from scratch to solve problems evolution hasn’t tackled. They talk about how these technologies could transform medicine, agriculture, and materials science. Along the way, they reflect on the surprising ways AI is changing the process of science itself.

Hard Drugs is a new podcast from Works in Progress and Open Philanthropy about medical innovation presented by Saloni Dattani and Jacob Trefethen.

Saloni’s substack newsletter: https://www.scientificdiscovery.dev/

Jacob’s blog: https://blog.jacobtrefethen.com/

Courses:

• EMBL-EBI. AlphaFold: A practical guide https://www.ebi.ac.uk/training/online/courses/alphafold/

Articles:

• Tanja Kortemme (2024) De novo protein design—From new structures to programmable functions https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(23)01402-2
• Jie Zhu et al. (2021) Protein Assembly by Design https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.chemrev.1c00308

Lectures:

• Rosetta Commons (2024) Diffusion models for protein structure generation (and design) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEnY2yA3jy8
• Rosetta Commons (2024) AlphaFold – ML for protein structure prediction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVrn8_8aKO8
• Rosetta Commons (2024) MPNN – ML for protein sequence design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z4XmUAwdNA

Acknowledgements:

• Aria Babu, editor at Works in Progress
• Graham Bessellieu, video editor
• Rachel Shu, on-site editor
• Anna Magpie, fact-checking
• Abhishaike Mahajan, cover art
• Atalanta Arden-Miller, art direction
• David Hackett, composer

Works in Progress & Open Philanthropy

Nature didn’t evolve all the proteins we need, but maybe artificial intelligence can help. Jacob and Saloni explore how tools like AlphaFold and ProteinMPNN are helping researchers re-engineer proteins, to make them safer, more stable, and more effective. They talk about how new technologies could help make a long-sought vaccine against Strep A, which causes scarlet fever and rheumatic heart disease, and how similar tools have already led to breakthroughs against COVID and RSV.

Hard Drugs is a new podcast from Works in Progress and Open Philanthropy about medical innovation presented by Saloni Dattani and Jacob Trefethen.

Saloni’s substack newsletter: https://www.scientificdiscovery.dev/

Jacob’s blog: https://blog.jacobtrefethen.com/

Courses:

• EMBL-EBI. AlphaFold: A practical guide https://www.ebi.ac.uk/training/online/courses/alphafold/

Articles:

• Monica Jain et al. (2022) Exosite binding modulates the specificity of the immunomodulatory enzyme ScpA, a C5a inactivating bacterial protease. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9464890/
• Jakki Cooney et al. (2008) Crystal structure of C5a peptidase https://www.rcsb.org/structure/3EIF
• Hui Li et al. (2017) Mutagenesis and immunological evaluation of group A streptococcal C5a peptidase as an antigen for vaccine development and as a carrier protein for glycoconjugate vaccine design https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2017/ra/c7ra07923k

Lectures:

• Rosetta Commons (2024) AlphaFold – ML for protein structure prediction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVrn8_8aKO8
• Rosetta Commons (2024) MPNN – ML for protein sequence design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z4XmUAwdNA

Acknowledgements:

• Aria Babu, editor at Works in Progress
• Graham Bessellieu, video editor
• Rachel Shu, on-site editor
• Anna Magpie, fact-checking
• Abhishaike Mahajan, cover art
• Atalanta Arden-Miller, art direction
• David Hackett, composer

Works in Progress & Open Philanthropy

[Correction: The structure of RSV's prefusion F protein was initially determined by X-ray crystallography by Jason McLellan and colleagues, rather than cryo-electron microscopy, although the latter was used to visualize antibody binding and confirm its structure.]

A hundred years ago, insulin was scraped from pig pancreases. Today, it’s made by bacteria in giant tanks. In the second part of a mini series on proteins, drug development and AI, Saloni tells the story of how insulin went from a crude animal extract to the first genetically-engineered drug, kickstarting the biotech industry along the way.

Hard Drugs is a new podcast from Works in Progress and Open Philanthropy about medical innovation presented by Saloni Dattani and Jacob Trefethen.

Saloni’s substack newsletter: https://www.scientificdiscovery.dev/

Jacob’s blog: https://blog.jacobtrefethen.com/

Books:

• Genentech: The beginnings of biotech by Sally Smith Hughes

Articles:

• FDA (2007). Celebrating a Milestone: FDA's Approval of First Genetically-Engineered Product https://fda.report/media/110447/Celebrating-a-Milestone--FDA%27s-Approval-of-the-First-Genetircally-Engineered-Product.pdf
• Genentech (2016). Cloning Insulin https://www.gene.com/stories/cloning-insulin
• Arthur Riggs (2020). Making, Cloning, and the Expression of Human Insulin Genes in Bacteria: The Path to Humulin https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/42/3/374/6042201

Podcasts:

• Novo Nordisk (Ozempic) by the Acquired podcast https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/novo-nordisk-ozempic

Acknowledgements:

• Aria Babu, editor at Works in Progress
• Adrian Bradley, on-site producer
• Anna Magpie, fact-checking
• Abhishaike Mahajan, cover art
• Atalanta Arden-Miller, art direction
• David Hackett, composer

Works in Progress & Open Philanthropy

This episode kicks off a mini-series on proteins, drug development and AI. Saloni and Jacob explore the world of proteins, including how proteins fold into complex shapes, why that complexity matters and how crowded and dynamic the inside of a cell really is; and they exchange surprising statistics about proteins.

Hard Drugs is a new podcast from Works in Progress and Open Philanthropy about medical innovation presented by Saloni Dattani and Jacob Trefethen.

You can watch or listen on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.

Saloni’s substack newsletter: https://www.scientificdiscovery.dev/

Jacob’s blog: https://blog.jacobtrefethen.com/

Books:

• Ron Milo and Rob Phillips. Biology by the numbers https://book.bionumbers.org/
• Carl Ivar Branden and John Tooze (1999) Introduction to protein structure https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.1201/9781136969898/introduction-protein-structure-john-tooze-carl-ivar-branden

Articles:

• Niko McCarty (2023). Biology is a burrito. https://www.asimov.press/p/burrito-biology
• Rhiannon Morris, Katrina Black, and Elliott Stollar (2022) Uncovering protein function: from classification to complexes. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9400073/
• Victor Muñoz and Michele Cerminara (2016) When fast is better: protein folding fundamentals and mechanisms from ultrafast approaches https://portlandpress.com/biochemj/article/473/17/2545/49248/When-fast-is-better-protein-folding-fundamentals

Image credits:

• Chang et al. (2012) Egg white in organic electronics. https://spie.org/news/4149-egg-white-in-organic-electronics [diagram of egg white denaturing and cross-linking]
• John Kendrew’s model of myoglobin’s structure; via Carl Ivar Branden and John Tooze (1999) Introduction to protein structure.
• Carl Ivar Branden and John Tooze (1999) Introduction to protein structure. [diagram of amino acids and protein structure]
• Ron Milo and Rob Phillips. Which is bigger, mRNA or the protein it codes for? https://book.bionumbers.org/which-is-bigger-mrna-or-the-protein-it-codes-for/ [diagram of myoglobin mRNA vs protein]
• Scitable (2014). Microtubules and Filaments. https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/microtubules-and-filaments-14052932/ [diagram of microtubules]