Dr. Ben Skutnik, PhD, CSCS*D, NSCA-CPT*D, is an Assistant Professor of Kinesiology and Human Performance Lab Director at Butler University and Head of Nutrition Coaching at Power Athlete.

Dr. Ben Skutnik joins the show to separate fact from fad in aerobic training, debunking zone 2 hype and explaining why VO2 max matters but isn't everything.

Expect to learn why reading scientific literature is its own skill, how uncontrolled variables quietly derail hypertrophy and menstrual-cycle training research, why treating people as fragile backfires, why anecdote in human performance often outruns the research, how "closing the loop" with clients beats chasing mechanisms, what the Norwegian 4x4 method gets right (and what most zone 2 research gets wrong about training zones), and how to actually build VO2 max with the critical power model, and much more.

Connect with Ben:

• Power Athlete Coach Bio
• LinkedIn
• Google Scholar

Episodes you'll enjoy next:

• #400 — Build Aerobic Fitness Before Mitochondrial Peptides: AMPK, VO2 Max & Recovery — Dr. Dwayne Jackson: Listen here
• #374 — Zone 2 Cardio: What the Science Really Says (Pros, Cons & Better Options) with Kristi Storoschuk: Listen here

Episode Timestamps:

• 1:46 — Why Ben was recommended for this conversation on cardiovascular and aerobic programming
• 7:31 — Reading scientific literature is a skill set of its own
• 14:05 — Hypertrophy training to failure and uncontrolled variables in research
• 16:27 — Debunking myths about training around the menstrual cycle
• 18:20 — Human resilience and the danger of treating people as fragile
• 22:09 — Why consistency beats trying to "hack" optimization
• 22:40 — Nutrition fear-mongering and overly restrictive diets
• 27:25 — Changing one variable at a time vs. the "kitchen sink" approach
• 29:55 — Why anecdotal evidence in human performance is often ahead of the research
• 34:48 — The ethics of placebo and "closing the loop" with clients
• 37:34 — The psychology of performance: the NFL kicker example
• 43:13 — The Norwegian 4x4 method and zone 2 training myths
• 46:40 — Why most zone 2 research relies on the wrong zone model
• 52:53 — HYROX, CrossFit, and Goodhart's Law in training
• 1:05:18 — Is VO2 max overrated? Performance vs. health tradeoffs
• 1:15:25 — Building VO2 max: interval protocols and the critical power model
• 1:26:02 — Life-changing results: taking deconditioned clients from VO2 max 18 to 35
• 1:30:09 — Where to find Ben Skutnik and his work at Butler University and Power Athlete

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Rick Alexander is a depth-psychological counselor, psychedelic practitioner, and interfaith spiritual care provider currently completing his Ph.D. in Mythology/Depth Psychology and a former Naval Special Operations combat medic.

Rick was a Special Operations combat medic until a single psychedelic experience shattered his worldview and sent him back to school to study psychedelic spiritual care. He and Dr. Mike dig into neuroplasticity windows, why “good trip/bad trip” is the wrong question, and what may really be happening in DMT space.

Expect to learn how a rough teenage salvia trip and a later psilocybin experience redirected Rick's entire career, what life is really like as a Special Operations Combat Medic supporting SEALs and Green Berets, why military training narrows emotional range and makes civilian re-entry so hard, how integration (not the trip itself) determines whether a psychedelic experience heals or destabilizes you, what the "third wave" of psychedelic science gets right that the DSM's "hallucinogen" label gets wrong, whether neuroplastic windows could help athletes learn skills faster, and what a brutal 5-MeO-DMT experience taught Rick about his own running form and breathing.

Connect with Rick:

• Website
• Instagram

Episodes you'll enjoy next:

• #47 — Tools to Down-Regulate in Response to Stress (an earlier conversation with Rick Alexander): Listen here
• #194 — The Pros and Cons of Psychedelic Compounds with Psychedelic Researcher Rebekah Senanayake: Listen here

Episode Timestamps:

• 2:49 – Rick's PhD progress and the psychedelic experience that redirected his career
• 3:38 – A rough first psychedelic experience with salvia at 18
• 4:46 – The psilocybin experience that "peeled back" his worldview
• 7:00 – Life as a Special Operations Combat Medic supporting SEALs and Green Berets
• 8:23 – How military training narrows emotional range and worldview
• 10:01 – Why veterans struggle to re-enter civilian life after specialized training
• 13:34 – The double-edged sword: psychedelics can destabilize as easily as they heal
• 14:32 – The "third wave" of psychedelic science and the flawed DSM "hallucinogen" label
• 23:49 – Integration: do you have time to process what comes up?
• 24:43 – "Psychedelic myth-making" and building a new personal mythology
• 31:05 – Could neuroplastic windows help athletes learn skills faster?
• 37:01 – Yogic energy channels (nadis) and psychedelics amplifying subtle perception
• 39:17 – How a brutal 5-MeO-DMT trip changed Rick's running form and breathing
• 56:16 – What's really happening in DMT space: Strassman, Gallimore, and "reality switch technologies"
• 59:43 – Henri Corbin's "psycho-cosmology": consciousness and reality as mirrored levels
• 1:06:45 – "Functional consequentialism": why you shouldn't dismiss someone else's experience
• 1:10:46 – Where to find Rick and his counseling and breathwork work

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter

Dr. Dwayne Jackson is a health specialist, medical educator, scientist, and entrepreneur with a PhD in neurovascular physiology.

Mitochondrial peptides may be promising, but they cannot replace the aerobic base that makes their effects measurable. Dr. Dwayne Jackson explains AMPK and mitochondrial signaling, what MOTS-c and SS-31 can and cannot tell us, and why fitness data, training, and recovery come before any experimental compound.

Expect to learn how aerobic fitness supports strength and Strongman training, why lactate clearance and conditioning can become the rate limiter, what AMPK and mTOR signal, how kidney disease changed Dwayne’s perspective on aerobic capacity, where the evidence for MOTS-c and SS-31 is limited, how to design a more useful N-of-1 experiment, and why training, nutrition, recovery, COAs, and third-party testing come before experimental compounds.

Connect with Dwayne:

• Website: drdwaynejackson.com
• Google Scholar

Episodes you’ll enjoy next:

• #396 — Are Your Peptides Illegal? — Rick Collins: A practical look at peptide science, regulation, and the gray market.
• #393 — From Powerlifter to Trail Runner — Paul Oneid & Cody Miller: VO2 max, cardiac adaptations, and the transition from strength sports to endurance.

Episode Timestamps:

• 01:53 — Mitochondrial peptides and the aerobic-training foundation
• 03:19 — Peptides as training amplifiers, not replacements
• 04:22 — AMPK, mTOR and mitochondrial signaling
• 05:50 — Why aerobic fitness supports strength and Strongman training
• 08:12 — Conditioning, lactate clearance and the rate limiter for strength athletes
• 10:58 — Wingate tests and overlapping energy systems
• 15:12 — Kidney disease, mitochondrial dysfunction and aerobic collapse
• 21:22 — Hypertensive crisis, dialysis and recognizing a major fitness decline
• 24:48 — Kidney transplant recovery and rebuilding aerobic capacity
• 28:27 — The evidence and limitations behind mitochondrial peptides
• 34:55 — MOTS-c, AMPK activation and anecdotal HIIT performance
• 39:59 — SS-31, cardiolipin and mitochondrial efficiency
• 48:32 — Why training, nutrition and recovery come before peptides
• 58:40 — Using performance data to make an N-of-1 experiment more useful
• 1:01:22 — SS-31 before training, AMPK timing and recovery trade-offs
• 1:06:07 — SLU-PP-332, exercise mimetics and the gap in human data
• 1:09:17 — Peptide sourcing, COAs and third-party testing
• 1:12:02 — Genetics, response variability and sustainable performance

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter

Emily Werner, PhD, RD, CSSD, IFNCP is Team Dietitian for the Philadelphia 76ers (NBA) and Philadelphia Flyers (NHL), and Nutrition Affairs Sport Lead at Timeline.

Dr. Emily joins Dr. Mike to unpack postbiotics, urolithin A, and why mitochondrial health matters for pro athletes and everyday people alike, digging into the real research behind Timeline's Mitopure and why chasing $200K gadgets rarely beats getting the fundamentals right.

Expect to learn what a postbiotic actually is and how urolithin A differs from other supplements, why old-school and new-school sports dietitians disagree on peptides and supplement fads, how chronic undereating quietly undermines performance in women's sports, what the current human performance research on urolithin A actually shows, how Mitopure is dosed and why urolithin A can't be reliably food-sourced, and why product quality and manufacturing integrity matter more than marketing claims, and much more.

Connect with Emily:

• Website: https://www.eateliteperform.com/
• Instagram: @emilywerner34
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-n-werner-phd-rd-cssd-ifncp-4a820a97/

Episodes you'll enjoy next:

• #377 — Methylene Blue for Mitochondria & Performance: Benefits, Dosing & Risks with Dr. Scott Sherr: Listen here
• #382 — Creatine for Muscle, Bone, Brain & Longevity (Plus Caffeine, Dosing, and Safety) with Dr. Darren Candow: Listen here

Episode Timestamps:

2:21 Welcome & introductions
6:09 What is a postbiotic? Pre-, pro-, and postbiotics explained
7:09 Urolithin A: the postbiotic behind Mitopure
8:19 How Emily started consulting for Timeline
10:11 Old-school vs. new-school sports dietitians on supplements
13:53 Peptides, anecdata, and why athletes ignore the data
20:05 The hardest lesson: letting go when clients won't listen
21:15 Money, ego, and athletes chasing $200K wellness gadgets
24:53 Chronic undereating in women's sports
30:48 Nutrition's real job: keeping athletes available to play
33:19 Inside Mitopure: Timeline's flagship urolithin A product
35:06 Mitochondria, mitophagy, and why they matter as we age
38:16 Diet, fasting, and exercise as natural mitophagy triggers
43:36 What the performance research on urolithin A actually shows
53:19 Aging, aerobic capacity, and Emily's 101-year-old grandma
55:40 Mitopure dosing: how much urolithin A and when to take it
57:14 Why urolithin A can't be food-sourced (and can't be faked)
1:03:19 Why product quality and integrity matter in supplements

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter

Zach Moore is a nutrition and exercise coach based in southern Indiana, coaching clients online and in person.

Zach cuts through the noise of complicated programming and diet protocols to get back to what actually works — minimalist strength training, honest macro-setting, and paying attention to gut health and micronutrient status before chasing anything fancier.

Expect to learn how to build serious strength with far less training volume than you think, why chasing perfect programming conditions is often a waste of energy, how Zach sets carbohydrate and macro targets for real-world clients, when (and when not) to bother with micronutrient or gut testing, and why micronutrients matter even on restrictive or elimination diets, and much more.

Connect with Zach:
Website: zmoore.com
Instagram: @ZachMFitness

Episodes you'll enjoy next:

• #388 — What Vinegar & Lifting Really Do To Your Gut: Listen here
• #397 — Why Getting Better Never Gets Easier with Cliff Wilson: Listen here

Episode Timestamps:

• 02:37 Training in a garage gym during a heat wave
• 03:53 Grip strength, sweat & cold water immersion
• 06:32 Overthinking training & lessons from old-time strongmen
• 09:54 Minimalist strength training & the trap bar deadlift
• 15:13 Go-to lifts & why you must add muscle for body comp
• 17:42 Progressive overload & long-term strength gains
• 19:56 How too much program variety kills progress
• 27:06 Individualizing & dialing in training volume
• 30:42 Favorite upper & lower body exercises
• 35:46 Nutrition foundations: informed eating
• 38:10 Eating enough to fuel training & recomp
• 44:06 Determining carb needs & setting client macros
• 48:13 The insulin myth: do carbs turn into fat?
• 52:40 Meal balance, fat timing & digestion
• 55:34 Tracking micronutrients with Cronometer
• 58:13 Gut testing, carnivore & elimination diets
• 1:02:25 Sleep tips: circadian rhythm, light & temperature
• 1:04:39 The Shiftwave chair for stress downregulation & sleep

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter

Cliff Wilson is a physique coach with over 16 years of experience working with bodybuilders and physique athletes of every level, including 24 world champions and the current natural bodybuilding world champion.

Getting better doesn’t make hard things feel easier—it makes you capable of doing more. Cliff Wilson explains the mental skills behind elite physiques, why context beats internet absolutes, and how great coaches turn research, experience, and failure into better decisions.

Expect to learn why impulse control makes up 20–50% of physique coaching, why you have to learn to dribble before you try to dunk, why practitioners and social media commentators are not the same thing, why getting fitter never makes a true max effort feel easier, how context (not absolutes) explains wildly different carb intakes between world-class physique athletes, why most advanced bodybuilders eventually land back on a bro split, and what separates “collectors” of credentials from coaches who can actually integrate and apply what they know—and much more.

Connect with Cliff:
teamwilsonbb.com (book: Becoming Unrivaled)
Instagram: @cwteamwilson
Raw Intensity app (mentioned in the episode)

Episodes you'll enjoy next:
#323 — Natural vs. Enhanced Bodybuilding: An In-Depth Chat with Aaron Straker: https://flex-diet-podcast.simplecast.com/episodes/episode-323-natural-vs-enhanced-bodybuilding-an-in-depth-chat-with-aaron-straker
#167 — The Physiologic and Psychologic Benefit of Doing Hard Things: Akshay Nanavati of Fearvana: https://flex-diet-podcast.simplecast.com/episodes/episode-167-the-physiologic-and-psychologic-benefit-of-doing-hard-things-akshay-nanavati-of-fearvana-with-dr-mike-t-nelson

Episode Timestamps:

• 02:15 — The edited interview begins and Mike explains the unusual opening
• 02:49 — Why 20–50% of physique coaching is impulse control
• 05:19 — Skill levels: learn to dribble before trying to dunk
• 07:37 — Practitioners vs. social media commentators
• 10:45 — Why you cannot sidestep the hard parts of fat loss
• 12:44 — Getting fitter does not make a true max effort feel easier
• 14:04 — Context beats absolutes: 700 grams vs. 50 grams of carbs
• 19:26 — Slow thinking, pondering, and turning information into insight
• 21:57 — Giving clients autonomy dramatically improved results
• 25:18 — Range, cross-domain learning, and better problem-solving
• 27:03 — Using OODA loops to make better coaching decisions
• 28:24 — Why most advanced bodybuilders return to a bro split
• 31:42 — Low-volume training, outliers, and small-sample traps
• 44:01 — A surprising DNA result and the role of elite genetics
• 48:31 — Michael Phelps, elite rituals, and competitive mindset
• 50:43 — Why bodybuilding coaching skill may have declined
• 53:11 — Objectivity, Austin Stout, and the traits of great coaches
• 01:03:14 — Collectors vs. integrators: credentials are not application
• 01:08:07 — Cliff's Raw Intensity app and upcoming book Becoming Unrivaled

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter

Rick Collins, Esq., NSCA-CSCS, is a lawyer who defends the nutrition and fitness community, a partner at Collins Gann McCloskey & Barry PLLC, and General Counsel to the International Society of Sports Nutrition.

Peptides are everywhere right now, but most of what's sold online as BPC-157 or TB-500 is illegal — and the FDA is about to decide what happens next. Rick breaks down the science, the legal gray market, and why the military's new testosterone screening policy matters too.

Expect to learn what actually counts as a "peptide," how GLP-1 drugs normalized injectable medications and fueled the gray market, what the FDA's own scientists concluded about BPC-157 and TB-500, why Rick's caseload has shifted from steroids to 80-90% peptide cases, what a possible "experimental peptide" middle-ground category could look like, and what really happens when the FDA raids a peptide seller, and much more.

Connect with Rick:
www.RickCollins.com

Episodes you'll enjoy next:
#371 — Peptides, TRT, GLPs & Bloodwork: How to Do It Safely (and What Most People Miss) with John Gorman: Listen here
#319 — Exploring the World of Peptides with Anthony Castore: Listen here

Episode Timestamps:
4:07 Rick's background as a lawyer and his standard legal disclaimer
6:14 What actually counts as a "peptide"
8:25 How GLP-1 drugs normalized injectable medications
10:44 Loss of trust in the FDA fuels the gray market
11:46 The rise of personal health autonomy
13:40 Two markets: the medical model vs. "bro science"
16:23 Inside the FDA Compounding Advisory Committee meeting
19:23 FDA scientists' verdict on BPC-157 and TB-500
20:49 Why the science on BPC-157 is still so thin
22:07 Prohibition logic: the black market will keep growing
25:47 A possible middle ground: an "experimental peptide" category
32:11 Rick's caseload shift — from steroids to 80-90% peptide cases
35:30 Why big pharma cares about tirzepatide and retatrutide knockoffs
42:28 Pete Hegseth and testosterone screening in the military
46:57 Why the new TRT policy may be "much ado about nothing"
49:23 Low testosterone's real, well-documented health risks
52:26 Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, and biohacking against nature
57:12 The schism between orthodox medicine and biohacking
62:39 What happens when the FDA raids a peptide seller
63:30 Connect with Rick Collins

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter

Samuel Brown, M.Ed., CSCS is a Cognitive Performance Specialist for the U.S. Air Force and a strength and conditioning professional who has worked everywhere from collegiate athletics to elite tactical units.

Sam spends his days training Air Force pilots and aircrew who run on nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol — and almost never turn off their nervous system. In this episode he reveals why the toughest operators need recovery just as much as intensity, and what years of coaching in Altus, Oklahoma taught him about real performance under extreme cognitive load.

Expect to learn what Air Force pilots are actually like to train, why the nicotine-caffeine-alcohol "trifecta" dominates military performance culture, how the physical act of flying itself takes a hidden toll through vibration and posture, why sympathetic nervous system domination cements poor posture and movement patterns, how Sam sneaks down-regulation into hard training sessions disguised as recovery work, and why resting heart rate might be a better performance metric than any wearable, and much more.

Connect with Sam:
https://www.instagram.com/sambrownstrength

Episodes you'll enjoy next:

• #312 — Optimizing Stress and Performance for Firefighters and Tactical Athletes with Dr. Drew Gonzalez: Listen here
• #310 — Unpacking the Science of Sleep with Dr. Allison Brager: Listen here

Episode Timestamps:

• 01:59 – What Air Force Pilots Are Actually Like
• 07:21 – Back to Basics: Training with Minimal Equipment
• 10:13 – Breaking the Instagram Training Cycle
• 12:06 – Endurance Trends Among Pilots
• 17:05 – The Air Force Trifecta: Nicotine, Caffeine & Alcohol
• 20:31 – Physical Toll of Flying: Vibration, Posture & Injury
• 23:44 – Stress Cements Posture: The Sympathetic Domination Problem
• 28:06 – Down-Regulation Protocols After Training
• 30:47 – Hiding the Pill in the Peanut Butter
• 47:44 – Wearables & the Loss of Body Awareness
• 50:31 – Resting Heart Rate as the Performance Metric
• 52:14 – The GOAT Drill for Cognitive Load & Recovery
• 1:02:31 – Building a Culture of Buy-In & Program Integration

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter

Get the Daily Fitness Insider newsletter (free): https://www.miketnelson.com/newsletter