It appears on some wine labels, winemakers speak lovingly about them, and there are organizations focused on them. “Old Vines” is a loosely defined term that is often associated with quality in the wine industry. Seghesio, a historic Californian winery, has a strong focus on old vines with its focus on Zinfandel and Italian varietals. Andy Robinson, Seghesio’s winemaker, lays out the economics of growing and selling old vine wines.

Detailed Show Notes:

Andy’s background: grew up in the Finger Lakes (NY), studied Chemistry, worked at Charles Krug

Seghesio overview

• Founded 1895 by Piedmont immigrant Eduardo Seghesio
• Alexander Valley & Russian River (Sonoma)
• ~120k cases / year; 160 acres planted
• Mostly Zinfandel (oldest 1895 at Home Ranch) and Italian varieties (Sangiovese, oldest from 1910)

Defines old vines as 50+ years vs Old Vine Conference defines as 35+ years, conventional vineyards normally have 20-25 year lifespan

• Must be an excellent vine (both in yield and quality) to become an old vine

Benefits of old vines

• Often head trained, umbrella shape gives natural shading, don’t need trellis supports, requires less maintenance late in the season; overall about the same cost as trellised (head trained harder to mechanize)
• More flavor compounds (a Spanish company researched this)
• More textural and complex flavors

Costs of old vines

• Expect lower yields (sets less fruit)
• Big cuts from pruning can have bigger impact on vines

Need to have a focus for old vines to be successful, which is why there are many single vineyard old vines; consistent ownership important for this

People are often willing to pay more for old vine wines, wine needs to be good

For deciding when to replant old vines: wines not fantastic anymore, yields drop <1 ton/acre, people not willing to pay enough to keep it

More diversity of varietals coming with old vines as late ‘70s plantings hit 50 years, historically mostly Zinfandel

Old vine organizations

• Old Vine Conference (started ~2020, Sarah Abbott in London): very international
• Historic Vineyard Society (started ~2010, Morgan Twain Peterson, Mike Officer, others): non-profit to catalogue old vine sites
• Core benefit of organizations is engaging wine writers and getting more publicity for old vines

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When Shekar Sathyanarayana, founder of Nalla, began visiting wineries in Santa Barbara and talked about Indian food, winemakers loved the food, but had never paired it with wine. Now, Nalla has brought Indian food and wine pairing to over 100 events hosted at wineries and other venues and Shekar shares what he has learned about match Indian food and wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

Shekar’s background: 1st generation South Indian, grew up in Kansas, was a talent agent and lawyer

Nalla founding

• Started as Indian food gatherings (2016) to explore different Indian cuisines
• Shekar knew nothing about wine, started driving to Santa Barbara wine country and learning
• Wineries said they’d never paired wine and Indian cuisine before

Nalla experiences, officially launched 2023

• Where South Asian cuisines and wine industry meet, includes culture (live music, dance, decor - e.g. - Thali plates, plates with small bowls in them)
• Done 100+ events at wineries and 3rd party venues
• 1st winery partner was Brecon Estate in Paso Robles, learned Albarino and samosas work well together
• Does 4 entrees, each from a different region, coursed w/ 2 wine glasses side by side, and data captured on preferences
• ~25-50 guests at each event
• Large market opportunity: 2.1B South Asians globally, ~6M in the US; highest household disposable income (~$100k for South Asian, ~$150k for Indians); very food forward and know little about wine

Indian wine

• ~200 wineries in India
• Grow varieties to sell (e.g. - rose), haven’t figured out what grows best yet
• 2 harvests / year
• Focus is educating people about wine, not yet integrated w/ food

4 components to “spicy” food

• Capsaicin - the heat in chilis, gives a burning sensation; can be offset by milk/dairy which has casein, a protein that binds to capsaicin
• Aromatics (e.g. - coriander, cumin, cinnamon, clove, cardamon) - no heat, but lots of smell and taste
• Sichuan pepper - gives a tingle, drying, numbing sensation (not common in Indian food)
• Piperine - key compound in black pepper, common in South Indian cuisine; can often flatten wines

Indian food & wine pairing - match aromatics w/ wine, heat comes second

• Capsaicin and alcohol make the heat worse, try to stay <14% abv with spicy
• Younger, tannic reds often fight Indian cuisine
• White wines pair well w/ aromatics
• When pairing with multiple dishes simultaneously, go back to aromatics, stick w/ whites (e.g. - Pinot Gris, Riesling, Viognier, maybe Chardonnay)
• When there’s more weight, dairy, can pair with some reds, particularly lighter (Grenache, GSM, Pinots)
• Creamy tomato based sauce, which alleviates some heat, can go w/ higher alcohol reds
• Aged reds can pair well, as tannins are more resolved

Regional Indian cuisine - 28 states in India, each region has its own cuisine

• North Indian known for meats (goat, lamb, chicken), dishes have more weight
• South Indian mostly vegetarian (lentils, daal, dosa, sambar), heavier on spices, more heat; sparkling wines work well
• Coastal (Kerala, Goa) more fish and seafood
• ~50% of India is vegetarian
• Bengali has heavy mustard paste, Sauv Blanc and Riesling work well
• Andhra uses both red and green chilis, makes it hard to pair w/ wine

Top 5 Indian dish pairings

• Chicken Tikka Masala, created by British, not traditional Indian; pairs w/ off dry Riesling, light Pinot, oaked Chards
• Butter Chicken, chicken cooked in tandoor, more diary and cream, milder spices; Viognier pairs well
• Samosas, breaded fried potatoes often w/ chutney (mint-cilantro, tamarind), sparkling pairs well (Cava, Prosecco)
• Biryani, a very emotional dish for Indians, saffron rice, chunks of meat or vegetarian, highest degree of aromatic complexity; Rose pairs well
• Saag Paneer, spinach and cheese, cream, ginger, and garlic; Sauvignon Blanc, herbaceousness pairs well, acid helps

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After retiring twice, Chris Baker, President of Brassfield Estate, was lured back in by a unique opportunity to build one of the world’s largest monopoles in the High Valley AVA of Lake County, California. Its unique volcanic terroir is now being scaled nationally with a 10 year contract and national alignment with Southern Glazers. Chris describes the best practices in working with distributors and partnering together to create a successful brand, built on trusted relationships.

Detailed Show Notes:

Chris’ background: hospitality, distribution, ran wineries, has tried to retire twice and come back due to his love of wine

Brassfield overview

• High Valley AVA, in Lake County CA
• 100% estate grown and produced
• 5,000 acre property, 500 acres planted, up to 2,000 plantable
• 65k sf cave, only 15% utilized
• Grows 17 varietals (10 in distribution), best known from Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Pinot Noir

Retail price points - $16-17 whites, $25-30 reds

• National partnership with Southern Glazers
• Was in 14 states, now in 45
• Perks to being nationally aligned - a little more attention, assigned trade development manager
• Have a 10 year contract (normal is 2-3 years) w/ automatic renewal
• Southern chose Brassfield because of its scalability (potential to be biggest monopole in the world) and they didn’t have a national product for Lake County

Sales team being built out

• 9 division managers, 1 national accounts on-premise
• Picked up experienced people (e.g. - from Vintage, others) who know a lot of accounts and not afraid to put a bag on their shoulders
• Team needs to know distributors feet on the street all the way to state leaders
• KPIs to drive velocity (getting several products in the right accounts, volume goal, rate of sales, accounts sold goal, 50/50 on- and off-premise split)

Small, medium wineries need to do more DTC, social media in new distribution environment

Need to identify brand’s uniqueness

Distributors and accounts want to know what brand will do to create pull

Focus on top moving accounts: top 250 restaurants, top retailers, share accounts b/w distributor and winery, need to understand what brands are important for the distributors (to not cannibalize sales)

“We’re in the relationship business”

National account restaurants - often have 3rd party agencies (e.g. - Patrick Henry, IMI) to work through, hard to get direct contact, can meet some people at Vibe conference, trade conferences, Aspen Food & Wine

Need to learn about customers and get to know each other

Best practice: being present, everyone is trying to get mindshare of distributors, can’t only go once every 6 months, need frequent communications, involvement, and call on accounts direct w/ or w/o distributor

Distributors have big notebooks of incentives (some suppliers have big ones), they cherry pick what they think will be easiest to accomplish

The top down approach can work, if distributor leads push down priorities to team

Creating consumer awareness (marketing, social, PR) can get attention w/o incentive programs, Brassfield hired a PR agency in NY and a marketing company in Napa

Biggest success stories:

• Lazy Dog - national account w/ Eruption Red Blend, participates in their annual summit
• Sugarfish Sushi - Sauvignon Blanc is in all 17-18 locations

Annual Volcano Camp (started 2025)

• Brassfield responsible for High Valley AVA
• Partnered w/ SommJournal to bring somms from around the country
• Dug soil pits
• Investment in education builds brand ambassadors, believes it is high ROI

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As one of the winners of the infamous 1976 Judgement of Paris, Chateau Montelena has a rich history to be proud of. To optimize that legacy, Montelena’s President and Winemaker Matt Crafton has been embarking on more of a luxury strategy for the brand, reducing grocery and chain presence and working towards pricing growth over volume. With the 50th anniversary of the Judgement in Paris and the wine market in extreme flux, Montelena is doubling down on the values that made it victorious.

Detailed Show Notes:

Matt’s background: wine production for 23 years, Economics degree, started at Montelena in 2008

Chateau Montelena overview

• Founded 1882 in Calistoga, Napa
• Shut down during Prohibition, resurrected in 1972 by Barrett family
• Famous for 1973 Chardonnay which won the 1976 Judgement of Paris tasting (50th anniversary in 2026)
• Mostly produces Cabernet Sauvignon and Chardonnay
• Produces ~35k cases/year
• Majority of $ DTC, volume is wholesale
• Export not big, focus of growth last 2-3 years

A full-time sales team not viable, so moved to partnership with Wilson Daniels as national sales agent beginning Jan 2026

• Has a Director of National Sales
• Distributes to all 50 states
• Traditionally skewed off-premise, moving more to on-premise; old agency went a lot of chain retail
• KPIs from 30-40% on-premise to 60-70% on-premise; get out of grocery and be allocated in chain retail
• Wants to use wholesale to build status, get in the right accounts (not necessarily 3 Michelin star restaurants - they don’t move many bottles)

Found retail accounts not holding price which would make restaurants and DTC members not buy the wines

Judgement of Paris story usage

• Use social media to get the story to end consumers
• David over Goliath story resonates with people
• Need to discuss how Montelena still upkeeps the principles and values that led to the win
• Keeping the story fresh requires mapping today’s actions (e.g. - large replant underway) to the original values (e.g. - curiosity, taking risk)

Wine critic influence has waned over last 15-20 years, but scores still have a big impact to certain types of buyers

Important to understand the ripple effects of wholesale decisions

Tools to navigate wholesale - pricing, mapping market allocations to market potential

Managing distributors - need to build direct relationships, get people out to the winery to see and feel the brand

Relationships critical to navigating a challenging wine market

Goal is to grow through price, not volume

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Nearly two decades after filming Somm, Jason Wise, Chief Creative Officer of Somm TV and Director of the Somm movies, has a deep view of wine in the media. Jason shares his perspective on what types of media moves the needle, how to get involved as a brand, the ever changing landscape of media itself.

Detailed Show Notes:

Update from the last 4 years: filming tons of food & wine content around the world, a couple theatrical releases

Somm TV: video streaming services, partners w/ wineries and wine regions, Jason founded it to not have to ask permission to film stories

• A lot of people find Somm TV from YouTube

Wine industry evolution (2010-2026): a lot more grapes and too much wine; beginner wine content no longer needed; market needs to sort a few things out; tariffs had huge impact on American wineries (some wineries were 20% Canada)

Wine helps create more connection and conversation

Media filming rights have changed a lot, used to have a pay a place to film, now they are happy to be a part of it

Sideways worked because it was unexpected and was done on its own terms

Streaming wars haven’t helped media gain influence, only a few shows that have had an impact (e.g. - Game of Thrones, White Lotus); there’s so much content, it’s hard to break through, now niche is king

• Niche segments sometimes just talk to their niche, don’t bring in new audiences
• Documentaries tell stores people didn’t know existed
• Netflix used to license shows, now they want to own everything, leads to less originality, just make what’s worked before
• YouTube feeds media, creators build a following, then produce more standard media

Wine industry’s role in the media

• Nobody wants to watch commercials
• Hard to push media to do what you want it to do
• Wine should be the drink to push in PR (e.g. - Chateau Angelus in James Bond films has had an impact)
• Wine cameos in movies can build awareness

Winery engagement with media

• Influencers are like “maintenance,” believes their influence is waning
• Get the product in TV shows / movies
• Need the “magic” in the bottle, be known for something (e.g. - Taylor Swift and Sancerre, fans figured it out)

Celebrity helps bring a platform if the product had good product-market fit (e.g. - Aveline and Cameron Diaz)

Media effectiveness goes in cycle, what works changes over time and circles back; need to try 10 things for 1 to work

Believes regional marketing is critical

Podcasts are part of people’s everyday routine and movies stick with you, TV is like the “bulk wine” of media

Wineries should put budget towards media, spread the money around

Many wineries have exited sponsorships and are losing consumer awareness

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As the wine world stumbles through difficult times (in early 2026), Karen MacNeil, author of The Wine Bible and co-founder of Come Over October, believes part of the disconnect stems from time. The fastness of the modern, social media fueled world and the slowness of wine. Her solution is to focus the narrative of wine with well-being and wine’s long-standing role as a beverage that brings people together.

Detailed Show Notes:

Karen’s background: author of The Wine Bible, writer, speaker, teacher

Worried that a change in culture, to a faster one with social media (took off in 2012 when Facebook hit 1B active users and >50% of the population had smart phones), has left wine, a slower product, behind

• White wine’s appeal may be partly that it implies fastness
• Wine is slower to create (can take 3-5 years) and to consume (high acid, tannins for reds)

Larger selection of beverages may also be competing for wine’s share, including functional beverages that are marketed as “mindful”

Wrote an article, “Is wine really in the alcohol business?” on how wine is more than alcohol, but threaded in the culture of food, history, religion, and art

Believes wine should promote the notion of wellbeing vs health, which includes better relationships from sharing wine with people

Started Come Over October w/ Gino Colangelo and Kimberly Charles, PR professionals

• 2025: reached 2.9B media impressions, had 1,400 retail store promotions, raised $250k
• Sister campaign is Share and Pair Sundays - to go beyond October, involve food, and help engage more restaurants
• All campaigns need a time, a reason, and a behavior
• Seneca Lake Wine Trail doing Share and Pair Sundays
• Texas Wine Country doing “Come Over October Y’all”
• Most impactful event was an interview with Pink and sports figures, showing wine connects people across industries

The wine industry will need to invest to get more people involved, the “Got Milk” campaign spent $23M in the first year

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The on-premise side of wine analytics has traditionally been a black hole, not covered by other data services. Somm.ai changed that when they launched in 2021, now covering ~100k on-premise accounts in the US alone. The richness of data allows Somm.ai to help their clients benchmark, prospect for new accounts, and so much more. Jeremy Hart, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Somm.ai, explains how it is more manpower vs a platform to accelerate on-premise sales.

Detailed Show Notes:

Jeremy’s background: restaurants, wholesale, importing

TX became a major wine market during ‘08 Global Financial Crisis; it took the allocations from NY and CA

Somm.ai founding: end of 2019 was originally an app for people to find restaurants with wines they wanted to drink; during the pandemic (2020) pivoted to turning restaurant wine lists into retail shops (sold ~$700k of wine); did some smart menus; 2021 launched current iteration of on-premise sales analytics

• Categorizes restaurants, bars, & hotels in US (100k accounts), Canada, Europe (6 countries, Germany largest w/ 3k accounts), Singapore; data updated every 2 weeks
• Jackson Family is longest client - w/ NBA partnership, Somm.ai developed target lists around NBA stadiums to sell into
• ~70 clients of all sizes (many large suppliers, e.g. - Terlato, Vintus, Concha y Toro, wholesalers, importers)

General use cases include:

• Benchmarking vs peers (accounts, placements)
• Prospecting and lead generation (can see accounts that other distributors cover)
• Identify brand extensions
• Help with pricing
• Identifying sales pitches for national accounts

ROI

• Some clients have moved up a lot in benchmarking ranks
• Save money on travel, focused on the right markets
• Can save manpower

Pricing ~$30-70k/year avg, includes unlimited training and unlimited seats, US and Canada (other geographies are an upcharge)

Product roadmap - expanding to more geographies, which can be temporary exclusivity for early partners

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It was long assumed that a love of wine runs in the family. Not so, according to new research conducted by ARENI Global on how young consumers get into fine wine. Pauline Vicard, Executive Director of ARENI, gets into the findings of their new study titled “The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine Wine.” From the shrinking middle class to the motivations of wine collectors to what drives women to embrace fine wine, the research and this conversation are chalk full of insights into how wine can attract the next generation of wine lovers.

Detailed Show Notes:

Fine wine trends (March 2026)

• A trend towards more collaboration and consolidation
• Entering the age of precision distribution, after precision winemaking and viticulture
• Shrinking middle class is shrinking the middle sector of wine
• Some retailers in the UK doing well by changing delivery policy (e.g. - free next day delivery at 1 bottle, new events relevant for new consumers)

New ARENI Study: The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine Wine

• Studied several major markets: Paris, London, NYC, Singapore, Shanghai, & Hong Kong
• Research process: expert led roundtables, questionnaires, & interviews / focus groups with consumers and trade
• Did focus groups in Paris & London of wine student groups (e.g. - LSE, Kings College); LSE’s group is 600 members and do 50 events/year with a £400 budget and 50 students attending each one

Study key insights

• Pool of fine wine drinkers is shrinking; demographics driven (less young people, wealth concentrating)
• Routes that create fine wine consumers (e.g. - tech and banking) are replacing internships w/ AI
• Results very similar across markets (a surprise)
• It’s friends, not family that drive wine interest
• Complexity of what’s not understood and the pursuit of knowledge being worthy and fun drives wine interest
• Visibility and ease of access to wine are important
• Restaurants are still important, but the high cost is an issue

Collectors are different from buyers

• Collectors have a reward system (e.g. - dopamine) from the chase
• Everyone has a genetic disposition to collect, but activated in 30-35% of the US population
• Collecting makes people overbuy, which requires a secondary market
• Reducing prices after en primeur can erode the trust in the reason to collect
• The French have a negative association with being a collector
• Young people often spend ~10-15 hrs/week searching and researching wine when they are collectors
• Differences are bigger between genders than nationality; wine collectors defined when 26-35, when women often start a family or build their career and don’t have the time to collect
• Only men reported a benefit from wine knowledge at work
• Events are a good way to test if people can be engaged with the brand
• Collectors learn about producers not regions (Asia different because certifications are important); want to know which producers, why they are important, and where they can be purchased

To trade up in wine, their community needs to trade up with them

Need to sell a community to drink with, not just the wines

Women historically have less propensity to become collectors

• Often have less access to money and drink 3-4x less than men
• Similar at the beginning (44% of <25 year olds engaged in wine, goes down to 7% around 40); it’s not an interest problem, it’s a conversion problem
• Women overindex in education, events, and the importance of community
• They never ask for a female only space, they don’t mind age or gender, but need to share interests (e.g. - similar spending power and interests)
• Successful events have thoughtful placement to create connections b/w people, including to be seen by interesting people; requires knowing all the people who come

Next for ARENI: restaurants business models and consumer expectations for fine wine and an update on US distribution

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