It appears on some wine labels, winemakers speak lovingly about them, and there are organizations focused on them. “Old Vines” is a loosely defined term that is often associated with quality in the wine industry. Seghesio, a historic Californian winery, has a strong focus on old vines with its focus on Zinfandel and Italian varietals. Andy Robinson, Seghesio’s winemaker, lays out the economics of growing and selling old vine wines.

Detailed Show Notes:

Andy’s background: grew up in the Finger Lakes (NY), studied Chemistry, worked at Charles Krug

Seghesio overview

• Founded 1895 by Piedmont immigrant Eduardo Seghesio
• Alexander Valley & Russian River (Sonoma)
• ~120k cases / year; 160 acres planted
• Mostly Zinfandel (oldest 1895 at Home Ranch) and Italian varieties (Sangiovese, oldest from 1910)

Defines old vines as 50+ years vs Old Vine Conference defines as 35+ years, conventional vineyards normally have 20-25 year lifespan

• Must be an excellent vine (both in yield and quality) to become an old vine

Benefits of old vines

• Often head trained, umbrella shape gives natural shading, don’t need trellis supports, requires less maintenance late in the season; overall about the same cost as trellised (head trained harder to mechanize)
• More flavor compounds (a Spanish company researched this)
• More textural and complex flavors

Costs of old vines

• Expect lower yields (sets less fruit)
• Big cuts from pruning can have bigger impact on vines

Need to have a focus for old vines to be successful, which is why there are many single vineyard old vines; consistent ownership important for this

People are often willing to pay more for old vine wines, wine needs to be good

For deciding when to replant old vines: wines not fantastic anymore, yields drop <1 ton/acre, people not willing to pay enough to keep it

More diversity of varietals coming with old vines as late ‘70s plantings hit 50 years, historically mostly Zinfandel

Old vine organizations

• Old Vine Conference (started ~2020, Sarah Abbott in London): very international
• Historic Vineyard Society (started ~2010, Morgan Twain Peterson, Mike Officer, others): non-profit to catalogue old vine sites
• Core benefit of organizations is engaging wine writers and getting more publicity for old vines

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When Shekar Sathyanarayana, founder of Nalla, began visiting wineries in Santa Barbara and talked about Indian food, winemakers loved the food, but had never paired it with wine. Now, Nalla has brought Indian food and wine pairing to over 100 events hosted at wineries and other venues and Shekar shares what he has learned about match Indian food and wine.

Detailed Show Notes:

Shekar’s background: 1st generation South Indian, grew up in Kansas, was a talent agent and lawyer

Nalla founding

• Started as Indian food gatherings (2016) to explore different Indian cuisines
• Shekar knew nothing about wine, started driving to Santa Barbara wine country and learning
• Wineries said they’d never paired wine and Indian cuisine before

Nalla experiences, officially launched 2023

• Where South Asian cuisines and wine industry meet, includes culture (live music, dance, decor - e.g. - Thali plates, plates with small bowls in them)
• Done 100+ events at wineries and 3rd party venues
• 1st winery partner was Brecon Estate in Paso Robles, learned Albarino and samosas work well together
• Does 4 entrees, each from a different region, coursed w/ 2 wine glasses side by side, and data captured on preferences
• ~25-50 guests at each event
• Large market opportunity: 2.1B South Asians globally, ~6M in the US; highest household disposable income (~$100k for South Asian, ~$150k for Indians); very food forward and know little about wine

Indian wine

• ~200 wineries in India
• Grow varieties to sell (e.g. - rose), haven’t figured out what grows best yet
• 2 harvests / year
• Focus is educating people about wine, not yet integrated w/ food

4 components to “spicy” food

• Capsaicin - the heat in chilis, gives a burning sensation; can be offset by milk/dairy which has casein, a protein that binds to capsaicin
• Aromatics (e.g. - coriander, cumin, cinnamon, clove, cardamon) - no heat, but lots of smell and taste
• Sichuan pepper - gives a tingle, drying, numbing sensation (not common in Indian food)
• Piperine - key compound in black pepper, common in South Indian cuisine; can often flatten wines

Indian food & wine pairing - match aromatics w/ wine, heat comes second

• Capsaicin and alcohol make the heat worse, try to stay <14% abv with spicy
• Younger, tannic reds often fight Indian cuisine
• White wines pair well w/ aromatics
• When pairing with multiple dishes simultaneously, go back to aromatics, stick w/ whites (e.g. - Pinot Gris, Riesling, Viognier, maybe Chardonnay)
• When there’s more weight, dairy, can pair with some reds, particularly lighter (Grenache, GSM, Pinots)
• Creamy tomato based sauce, which alleviates some heat, can go w/ higher alcohol reds
• Aged reds can pair well, as tannins are more resolved

Regional Indian cuisine - 28 states in India, each region has its own cuisine

• North Indian known for meats (goat, lamb, chicken), dishes have more weight
• South Indian mostly vegetarian (lentils, daal, dosa, sambar), heavier on spices, more heat; sparkling wines work well
• Coastal (Kerala, Goa) more fish and seafood
• ~50% of India is vegetarian
• Bengali has heavy mustard paste, Sauv Blanc and Riesling work well
• Andhra uses both red and green chilis, makes it hard to pair w/ wine

Top 5 Indian dish pairings

• Chicken Tikka Masala, created by British, not traditional Indian; pairs w/ off dry Riesling, light Pinot, oaked Chards
• Butter Chicken, chicken cooked in tandoor, more diary and cream, milder spices; Viognier pairs well
• Samosas, breaded fried potatoes often w/ chutney (mint-cilantro, tamarind), sparkling pairs well (Cava, Prosecco)
• Biryani, a very emotional dish for Indians, saffron rice, chunks of meat or vegetarian, highest degree of aromatic complexity; Rose pairs well
• Saag Paneer, spinach and cheese, cream, ginger, and garlic; Sauvignon Blanc, herbaceousness pairs well, acid helps

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After retiring twice, Chris Baker, President of Brassfield Estate, was lured back in by a unique opportunity to build one of the world’s largest monopoles in the High Valley AVA of Lake County, California. Its unique volcanic terroir is now being scaled nationally with a 10 year contract and national alignment with Southern Glazers. Chris describes the best practices in working with distributors and partnering together to create a successful brand, built on trusted relationships.

Detailed Show Notes:

Chris’ background: hospitality, distribution, ran wineries, has tried to retire twice and come back due to his love of wine

Brassfield overview

• High Valley AVA, in Lake County CA
• 100% estate grown and produced
• 5,000 acre property, 500 acres planted, up to 2,000 plantable
• 65k sf cave, only 15% utilized
• Grows 17 varietals (10 in distribution), best known from Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Pinot Noir

Retail price points - $16-17 whites, $25-30 reds

• National partnership with Southern Glazers
• Was in 14 states, now in 45
• Perks to being nationally aligned - a little more attention, assigned trade development manager
• Have a 10 year contract (normal is 2-3 years) w/ automatic renewal
• Southern chose Brassfield because of its scalability (potential to be biggest monopole in the world) and they didn’t have a national product for Lake County

Sales team being built out

• 9 division managers, 1 national accounts on-premise
• Picked up experienced people (e.g. - from Vintage, others) who know a lot of accounts and not afraid to put a bag on their shoulders
• Team needs to know distributors feet on the street all the way to state leaders
• KPIs to drive velocity (getting several products in the right accounts, volume goal, rate of sales, accounts sold goal, 50/50 on- and off-premise split)

Small, medium wineries need to do more DTC, social media in new distribution environment

Need to identify brand’s uniqueness

Distributors and accounts want to know what brand will do to create pull

Focus on top moving accounts: top 250 restaurants, top retailers, share accounts b/w distributor and winery, need to understand what brands are important for the distributors (to not cannibalize sales)

“We’re in the relationship business”

National account restaurants - often have 3rd party agencies (e.g. - Patrick Henry, IMI) to work through, hard to get direct contact, can meet some people at Vibe conference, trade conferences, Aspen Food & Wine

Need to learn about customers and get to know each other

Best practice: being present, everyone is trying to get mindshare of distributors, can’t only go once every 6 months, need frequent communications, involvement, and call on accounts direct w/ or w/o distributor

Distributors have big notebooks of incentives (some suppliers have big ones), they cherry pick what they think will be easiest to accomplish

The top down approach can work, if distributor leads push down priorities to team

Creating consumer awareness (marketing, social, PR) can get attention w/o incentive programs, Brassfield hired a PR agency in NY and a marketing company in Napa

Biggest success stories:

• Lazy Dog - national account w/ Eruption Red Blend, participates in their annual summit
• Sugarfish Sushi - Sauvignon Blanc is in all 17-18 locations

Annual Volcano Camp (started 2025)

• Brassfield responsible for High Valley AVA
• Partnered w/ SommJournal to bring somms from around the country
• Dug soil pits
• Investment in education builds brand ambassadors, believes it is high ROI

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