If as many Asians drank wine as the average American, we’d have ~100,000 more wine drinkers. And if Asian restaurants had wine lists at the average rate, we’d have ~5,000 more restaurants with wine lists. This is one of the foundations of the Asian Wine Association of America (“AWAA”), whose mission includes bringing wine to Asian cultures, of which food is central. Part of bridging this divide is exploring Asian food and wine pairing. One of AWAA’s board members, Sunny Liao, Co-founder and CEO, and Philippe Venghiattis, Cellar Master of Vinus Club, delve into their extensive experience pairing wine with Asian foods.

Detailed Show Notes:

Sunny’s background: exposed to wine from 6, wine educator with Lady Penguin in China, Wine MBA, wine consultant for restaurants, board member of AWAA

Philippe’s background: exposed to wine from 3, worked in wine auctions, then went to UC Davis and is a vineyard manager and winemaker as well as operations for Vinus Club

Vinus Club is a wine club focused on introducing wine to Asian consumers, including a wine dinner series

Asian food: texture is a big focus, meals often have a diverse assortment of food at once, often need more than 1 wine to pair

Wine w/ at least 5-6 years of age are more accessible to a wider array of flavors and spice vs the pure fruit of young wines, more complexity helps for pairing

Spicy foods work well w/ wines w/ a denser mid-palate that buffer the alcohol

Philippe’s first challenge with Asian food and wine was at UC Davis with spicy hot pot

Eastern palates tend to be more sensitive to acid and more into texture (e.g. - the texture of Petite Sirah attractive to Eastern palates)

Pairing suggestions

• Aged Alsatian whites (15-20 years old) work well, they have texture, complexity, and mid-palate to buffer the spice
• Smargad Riesling w/ a few years of age pairs well w/ Singaporean food
• Braised duck and Barolo
• Flor de Muga Blanco’s aging process adds texture
• Orange and volcanic wines work for younger wines
• Champagne w/ a large amount of reserve wine
• Jura wines a natural fit for a lot of categories
• Nicolas Joly’s Coulee de Serrant w/ ~15 years of age often pairs well, but also shows a lot of variation

Hardest pairings:

• Korean food; often has a hint of sweetness, hard to balance w/ wine
• Indian cuisine

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With ~1M registered users, CellarTracker (“CT”) is one of the core consumer apps for wine lovers. When Eric LeVine, Founder & CEO of CT, was last on XChateau in late 2021, they had just taken on investment to expand the business. Eric gives us a rundown of what has happened since, like launching a new mobile app and adding AI features, as well as what is coming down the pipe.

Detailed Show Notes:

CT now at 1M registered users, with monthly active users +40-50% since 2021

• Team has grown from ~10 employees during Covid to ~25

Launched new mobile app 1.5 years ago (2023)

• ~10k reviews in Apple App Store / Google Play with a 4.9* rating
• More modern, visual
• For subscribers: enhanced drinking windows, tasting notes, AI features (chatbot for wines you like, pairings, etc…)
• 3x users registering on monthly basis vs 2021
• Continue to support old app to be more customer centric and work out bugs in the new app

Improved data analytics; overhauled drinking windows, valuation of wines, “what’s poppin” identifying when people are opening wines

Winery analytics: trialed with a couple wineries

• No obvious product market fit
• Wineries interested in what other wineries were in cellars with theirs
• One CA winery had 40% of their mailing list on CT

Historically did no marketing

• Doing more social media, email engagement
• Some paid search, App Store optimization is the biggest driver

Get feedback on what improve with Frill, users can vote on improvements needed and pair it with product usage and usage flows

New features on the horizon

• Starting in-app notifications
• Developing research tool to identify what wines to buy and how much to pay (aggregates price data from reports and ~50% of users report price paid)
• Making AI embedded natively in the application

Add via receipt feature automatically adds (using AI) wines to cellar if you email add@cellartracker.com

• Product pricing
• Was early adopter of “freemium” model
• People were confused by historic “voluntary payment,” only 1/1000 users could say what features are paid
• Added more value to paying users (e.g. - drinking windows, AI features; including some things that used to be free), doubled user pay rate
• Suggesting what to pay is more hidden now
• Can get an annual subscription on website, monthly on Apple App Store w/ 2 week free trial (Apple takes a cut and must cancel through Apple)

Consumer trends

• People looking for values (e.g. - they ask “what’s a cheaper version of x?”) and diversity of wines
• Not seeing a lot of changes in user patterns (e.g. - consumption)

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After 40 years, Roederer Estate, the Californian arm of Champagne Louis Roederer has really started to hit its stride. Arnaud Weyrich, SVP and Winemaker of Roederer Estate and Xavier Barlier, CMO of MMD USA, discuss its history, trajectory, and how Roederer Estate continues to create more reasons to believe in the brand and the wines. This belief is grounded in a vision to make wines that look and taste like Champagne, but with Californian roots.

Detailed Show Notes:

Arnaud’s background: interned at Roederer Estate (“RE”) in 1993, returned to winemaking team in 2000

Xavier’s background: Moet Hennessy, Renault, Disney, then Roederer Marketing & Communications

Roederer Estate in context

• Louis Roederer founded in 1776, began exporting to US in 1860-70’s
• 1980s - acquired Anderson Valley vineyards and built Roederer Estate winery
• Maison Marques & Domaines (“MMD”) founded 1987 for launch of 1st vintage of RE and distribution of Louis Roederer
• RE founded because during 1980s, not enough Champagne made to supply growing US market and land was cheaper than France; could also do the estate model, which was difficult in Champagne
• Anderson Valley had the right weather, track record of other quality, local wines (Chardonnay, Riesling, Gewurztraminer), and inexpensive land (was known for apple orchards)

RE production

• 1st harvest 1985 (80s challenged by legal problems for wine w/ sulfite content)
• Late 80s-early 90s - 40-45k cases
• Mid-90’s-2000 - ~80k cases (bolstered by French paradox, internet boom, young chefs, and “sommelier” becoming an English word)
• 2025 - ~100k cases
• Limited by estate model, remote part of CA (tries to attract talent by providing subsidized housing for 90% of staff, invested $3M over last 10 years)

CA sparkling history

• Pioneers supported each other (e.g. - Schramsberg, Domaine Carneros, Iron Horse)
• Downturn in market (1987 stock market crash, 1989 phylloxera hit vineyards)
• Market reaction positive, particularly after Schramberg wine served by President Nixon in China at the 1972 “Toast to Peace”

RE launch pricing

• Champagne was priced <$10/bottle in 1980’s, created glass ceiling for CA sparkling
• RE priced $2-5 below Champagne
• RE always wanted to look and taste like Champagne (used same varieties, techniques, including reserve wine)

Accolades helped establish a “reason to believe” for consumers

• RE awarded Wine Spectator Top 100 12x since 1998 (#5 in 2019, #20 in 2024)
• Roederer philosophy to do “as little marketing as possible”
• 2 types of marketing: 1) consumer focused, doing focus groups and market studies; 2) invisible marketing (e.g. - Steve Jobs), start w/ vision and dream (i.e. - be storytellers)
• RE is more product driven, not market driven; winemaking makes the wine, marketing tells the story

Keeping the brand fresh after 40 years

• Continue adding reasons to believe for RE
• As more is learnt about estate, launching new wines - Rose, L’ermitage (vintage, 1989), L’ermitage Rose (1999), Single Vineyards (2020)
• Single vineyards stem from 600 acres / 100 lots of wine every year; like grower wines in Champagne; wine geeks and sommeliers love it; intimate launch (mostly DTC, some on-premise to create buzz and interest)
• Create a community (e.g. - Arnaud often in market for tastings), turn consumers into clients and then into fans that tell the brand story to others

Price of NV Brut has increased from ~$23 to $30 from 2016-2025

• Be honest, transparent w/ wholesalers (e.g. - labor cost, cost of farming, materials), and give time for changes to work through 3-tier system
• Need accolades and marketing to support the idea that the wine is worth the price (“price fluctuates, value endures”)

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