Dead or alive? How this marine ecologist (re)discovers (potentially) extinct species.

Episode Description

We're living through the Triple Planetary Crisis: climate change, biodiversity loss, and pollution. But while climate change dominates headlines, biodiversity loss quietly accelerates—our planet experiences its 6th mass extinction event.

Christina Biggs, a marine ecologist, dedicates her career to a deceptively simple question: Is this species really extinct?

In this episode, Christina takes us on expeditions from the Galapagos Islands to the deep sea's mesophotic zone, where she searches for species scientists haven't documented in decades. We explore how she uses cutting-edge eDNA technology to detect life we can't see, why technical divers risk their lives at 75 meters depth, and how a coral everyone thought was extinct adapted to survive by moving deeper.

But this conversation goes beyond lost species. Christina explains why a single centipede matters to the air we breathe, how aquariums serve as genetic arks for species with nowhere else to go, and why understanding ocean ecosystems—particularly the understudied deep sea—determines our own survival.

This isn't a doom-and-gloom conversation. Christina shares stories of hope: sharks being rewilded in Raja Ampat, coral refuges in unexpected places, and local communities becoming the stewards of cutting-edge conservation technology.

Whether you've never thought about marine ecosystems or you're already ocean-obsessed, this episode will change how you see the interconnectedness of life on Earth.

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  Memorable Moments

  [08:14] What a conservation ecologist's "two separate days" look like—from spreadsheets to ship-bound expeditions

  [13:03] The staggering numbers: we're losing hundreds of species daily in the 6th mass extinction

  [18:46] How to identify which species on the "lost" list face true extinction vs. just haven't been found

  [30:14] The mind-bending technology of eDNA: detecting life from discarded cells in water

  [42:03] The chicken-and-egg problem: finding DNA from species that haven't been sequenced yet

  [51:24] Technical divers who spend 4-5 hours underwater with complex gas mixtures—and why they do it

  [54:46] The Wellington's coral rediscovery: how a "shallow water" coral survived by adapting to the deep

  [01:03:16] The ReShark project: a conservation success story that restores hope

  Guest Bio

  Christina Biggs is a marine conservation ecologist who ran the Lost Species Program, searching for species that haven't been documented in over 10 years. Her work spans from Madagascar to the Galapagos Islands, combining traditional fieldwork with emerging technologies like eDNA sampling. Previously, she worked at the Monterey Bay Aquarium and Research Institute. Christina specializes in making conservation science accessible and is currently developing tools that allow recreational divers to contribute to reef biodiversity data.

  Links & Resources

  Support Christina's Research:

  • Experiment.com - California Biodiversity Institute Monterey Study (crowdfunding platform for scientific research)

  
  

  Organizations Mentioned:

  • IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature) Red List
  • Association of Zoos and Aquariums (AZA)
  • World Association of Zoos and Aquariums (WAZA)
  • Schmidt Ocean Institute
  • ReShark Project (Raja Ampat & Thailand)
  • Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
    

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Where The Ocean Meets: Benedict Wermter (Bule Sampah)

Episode Summary

From German punk dropout to Indonesia's most influential plastic pollution educator, Benedict Wermter has lived multiple lives before turning 40. In this conversation, Benedict shares his journey from anti-establishment teenager to investigative journalist to social media educator reaching 5+ million Indonesians monthly. He reveals shocking realities of waste management in Indonesia, including how plastic waste is burned to steam tofu, and explains why he believes behavioral change—not recycling—holds the key to solving our plastic crisis.

Guest Bio

Benedict Wermter, known online as "Bule Sampah" (White Trash), is a German investigative journalist turned environmental educator based in Indonesia. He was the first trainee at Correktiv, Germany's premier investigative journalism outlet, and produced documentaries including "The Recycling Myth" that aired on BBC and German television. Today, he reaches over 5 million Indonesians monthly through social media, educating communities about plastic pollution and waste prevention. He also founded a foundation and developed the SampApp for waste education.

Key Topics Discussed

The Punk Years & Early Rebellion

• Dropping out of school at 16 in industrial West Germany
• Joining punk communities and questioning capitalist structures
• The transition from rebellion to purposeful activism
• How anti-establishment attitudes evolved into investigative journalism

Investigative Journalism Career

• Training at Correktiv with founder David
• Learning that most scandals happen "in front of everybody's eyes"
• Power dynamics and conflicts of interest in media
• The complexity of truth in environmental reporting
  

Indonesia's Waste Crisis Reality

• Structural waste burning every afternoon across villages
• Children living on dump sites
• Plastic waste burned to steam tofu in factories
• Motor oil dumped directly onto trees
• The gap between tourist perception and reality

Building Bule Sampah

• Why he chose to educate rather than investigate
• Reaching 5+ million Indonesians monthly on Instagram
• Consumer behavior change vs. recycling solutions
• Measuring impact through surveys and the SampApp
  

Solutions & Hope

• Why "zero waste" is misleading - better to have 10 people reduce waste 10% than 1 person reduce 80%
• The importance of connecting households to proper infrastructure
• Extended Producer Responsibility and regulatory frameworks
• Economic incentives for waste collection and management

Memorable Quotes

"The majority of scandals are not the secret things that need to be uncovered... the power abuse and the things that are actually scoops are happening in front of everybody's eyes."

"There is no way you can hate plastics. Plastics are the tool of our time. We all use them every day. It's clearly the age of plastics."

"Zero waste is also misleading. Like nobody can be zero waste. It's a bullshit term. We want 10 people to be 10% less wasteful."

"Waste management starts with consumption, obviously, and not with managing waste."

Episode Highlights & Timestamps

[00:00] Introduction and the Nazi chase vs. Bulgarian scrapyard comparison

[01:22] From motivated student to punk dropout

[05:06] What triggers Benedict about "the establishment"

[08:19] Learning about power and injustice in journalism

[11:28] Why crude characters and environmental stories

[19:34] The paradox of hating plastic while using smartphones

[23:51] Does Indonesia really care about plastic pollution?

[25:57] The reality beyond Bali's tourist image

[31:34] The tofu factories burning plastic story

[36:21] How your baseline adjusts to extreme conditions

[37:25] Building a 5+ million person reach

[42:04] From outside critic to industry participant

[44:10] Success stories and concrete impact

Will Pearson: Building a Positive Vision for the Future | Where The Ocean Meets

Episode Summary

We haven't had a positive vision of the future since Star Trek in the 1960s. In this episode, I sit down with Will Pearson, co-founder of Ocean Bottle, to design a roadmap for what comes next. From reshaping capitalism to putting the ocean at the center of our economy, we explore how to build systems where businesses give more than they take and planetary healing becomes profitable.

Guest

Will Pearson - Co-Founder of Ocean Bottle, Forbes 30 Under 30, B-Corp advocate

Ocean Bottle has collected over 22 million kg of ocean-bound plastic while building an 8-figure revenue business. Will is also the founder of B+, an initiative bringing together the world's most ambitious companies on climate and nature.

Key Topics

Reshaping Capitalism: Start, Stop, Keep

• Why businesses that heal the planet should be profitable
• The B+ initiative: connecting regenerative startups with global corporations
• Moving from businesses that reduce harm to businesses that create positive impact

Ocean-Centered Future

• Putting ocean health at the center of economic planning
• Marine protected areas and biodiversity restoration
• Why we need sharks back in the Mediterranean
  

Plastic Economy Transformation

• Design problems: 400-year materials for week-long products
• Breaking plastic's dependence on oil industry byproducts
• Building collection infrastructure that provides income opportunities

Media and Culture Change

• Why constructive optimism beats fear-based messaging
• Making scientists and ocean researchers the new cultural heroes
• The need for platforms that celebrate positive solutions

Memorable Quotes

"We need to flip the question - instead of asking why environmental companies should be allowed to profit, we should ask why companies destroying the planet are allowed to make money."

"Businesses need to give more than what they take. We're getting to a point where companies reduce negative externalities to zero and actually drive positive impact."

"Without a doubt, if we can protect the ocean and allow it to regenerate itself, it will be our biggest ally against climate change and the biodiversity crisis."

Resources Mentioned

• B+ Initiative - Community of ambitious climate and nature companies
• Atmos & Earthrise Studios - Instagram channels for sustainability stories
• "Ocean" by David Attenborough - Book recommendation
• "Blue Mind" - Book on human connection to water
• CleanHub - My company partnering with Ocean Bottle on collection

Connect with Will

• Ocean Bottle: oceanbottle.co
• LinkedIn: Will Pearson

Connect with Me

• CleanHub: cleanhub.com
• LinkedIn: Joel Tasche

This episode is part of Where The Ocean Meets, exploring the intersection of business, sustainability, and ocean conservation. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

When It's Never Too Late - Lena Kemna's Journey from Student to Big Wave Surfer

Episode Description

"It's too late." How many times have you heard those words? Most of us accept these limits and settle into the lives we think we're supposed to have. But what happens when someone completely rewrites the rules?

Meet Lena Kemna - a woman who picked up her first surfboard at 24 while deep in her studies. Just a few years later, she's paddling out at Nazaré, Portugal, facing waves that tower eight stories high. This isn't just about learning to surf late in life. It's about discovering a passion so powerful it forces you to question everything you thought you knew about yourself.

In this candid conversation, Lena shares the real story behind her extraordinary journey - from that first chaotic surf lesson in Fuerteventura to competing in big wave competitions. This is a story about not listening to what common sense tells you, and proving that you can have it all if you define what your "all" is.

What You'll Learn

- Why starting surfing at 24 might actually be an advantage for big wave surfing

- The mental approach that keeps Lena safe in 20+ foot waves

- How she balances a PhD in marketing with professional big wave surfing

- The reality of surf culture and localism in Portugal and Germany

- Why she's "not an adrenaline junkie" despite surfing massive waves

- The importance of intuition and preparation in extreme sports

- How to navigate toxic environments while pursuing your passion

Key Topics Discussed

- That pivotal wave in Bali that changed everything

- Moving to Portugal and organizing life around the ocean

- The difference between paddle surfing and tow-in surfing at Nazaré

- Dealing with jet ski chaos and the big wave community

- Taking a break from surfing due to toxic culture

- The rediscovery of love for the sport in Madeira

- Balancing academic life with professional surfing

- Managing finances as an extreme athlete

- Her approach to sponsors and staying true to values

About Lena Kemna

Lena Kemna is a professional big wave surfer and PhD candidate in marketing who started surfing at 24. She now surfes at among others Nazaré, Portugal, one of the world's most famous big wave spots. She's also an accomplished freediver and advocates for authentic representation in extreme sports. Based in Portugal, she's building toward creating her own big wave team.

Memorable Quotes from the Episode

- "I'm quite German about it" - on her all-or-nothing approach to pursuits

- "It was survival... just being out there in the power of the ocean, I think that kind of hooked me"

- "For me it wasn't a hard decision, it was a very clear decision that I was like, it's the only way I want my life to revolve around the ocean"

- "I like to do it kind of inside of my comfort zone... I'm not a crazy adrenaline junkie"

- "If you go into a meeting room with the board of directors, it's never going to be as scary as a 24-foot wave behind it"

- "There is no window" - on when it's too late to pursue dreams

- "If I'm not having fun, I can just go home"

Resources Mentioned

- Nazaré, Portugal - legendary big wave surfing spot

- Ericeira, Portugal - where Lena does most of her surfing

- Madeira - where she rediscovered her love for surfing

- The importance of apnea training for big wave surfing

Connect with Lena

@lena.kemna

https://www.lenakemna.com/

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This episode challenges everything you think you know about timing, risk, and following your passion. If you enjoyed it, subscribe and leave us a review to help others discover these stories of people who refused to accept "it's too late."

Where the Ocean Meets - Episode with Dr. Fabio Favoretto

Episode Description

At the UN Oceans Conference, host Joel Tasche heard a bold claim from an Australian billionaire: if we turn 30% of the world's ocean into marine protected areas, we can fix the oceans. This sparked a fascinating conversation with Dr. Fabio Favoretto, an internationally renowned marine scientist who has dedicated his career to researching these protected zones.

What started as an academic discussion turned into one of the most entertaining and eye-opening conversations about ocean conservation. Dr. Favoretto paints vivid pictures of healthy oceans where the sun goes dark from massive schools of tuna, and of devastated seas that have become underwater deserts. He explains what marine protected areas really are, why they're so controversial, and the surprising obstacles we face in establishing them.

Most importantly, this conversation offers hope - because the science shows that when we stop interfering, nature doesn't just survive, it explodes back to life with breathtaking speed.

Dr. Fabio Favoretto - Marine ecologist and internationally renowned scientist specializing in marine protected areas research. With over 4,000 dives around the world, Dr. Favoretto has conducted groundbreaking research at Mexico's Revillagigedo Archipelago and works to demonstrate how ocean protection benefits both marine ecosystems and fishing communities.

• Marine Protected Areas (MPAs): What they are and why only 3% of the ocean is truly protected
• Ocean Recovery: How ecosystems can bounce back in just 10 years when left alone
• The Mediterranean Crisis: How Europe's sea was transformed from a biodiverse paradise to an underwater desert
• Industrial vs. Artisanal Fishing: The real culprits behind ocean depletion
• The Spillover Effect: How protecting areas actually helps fishermen
• 30 by 2030 Movement: The global push to protect 30% of oceans by 2030
• Hope and Solutions: Why getting out of nature's way is the key to recovery

"The sun darkened. Everything went and I could feel the movement of the water because thousands of tunas were like just going... you could see like, like basically Formula One cars." - Dr. Favoretto describing an encounter at Revillagigedo

"That was stolen from me. I could have dove with mantas, white sharks, turtles, seals... I could have dove in the Mediterranean Sea, and I cannot anymore." - On the degradation of the Mediterranean

"The ocean is not dying. The ocean will never die... We are the ones that are paying the price, but we are not realizing it."

"We can do almost whatever we want with 97% of the ocean. So what are we talking about? We are really fighting about the 3%."

"It's either protect or go extinct."

• 03:17 - The incredible tuna encounter story
• 07:22 - Why the Mediterranean's degradation feels personal
• 13:41 - Who's really paying the price for ocean destruction
• 36:38 - How Cabo Pulmo recovered in just 10 years
• 56:17 - The stark choice we face: protect or go extinct
• 59:13 - What gives Dr. Favoretto hope for the future

• Revillagigedo Archipelago (Mexico's "Galapagos")
• Pristine Seas Initiative (National Geographic)
• Cabo Pulmo Marine Protected Area success story
• "The Unnatural History of the Sea" by Carl Roberts
• 30 by 2030 ocean protection movement

• Follow the podcast: @WhereTheOceanMeets
• Provide feedback to make future episodes better
• Dr. Fabio Favoretto's research and Atlas Aquatica project

Note: Halfway through the conversation, audio and video setup experienced technical difficulties. We appreciate your patience with any quality changes during the episode.

Next Episode Preview: Stay tuned for more deep dives into ocean conservation, marine science, and the people working to protect our blue planet.

GuestKey Topics DiscussedMemorable QuotesKey TimestampsResources & LinksConnect

Smoking, party lifestyle, MS Diagnosis - World Record in Apnea Diving?

How do all these things come together? Anna and me sit down to cover her wild ride from speed boats, to finding tranquility at 80m below sea level without oxygen.

Join us in this conversation that has more highs and lows than the wild oceans. This is also your chance to acompany a world record dive without getting your feet wet.

Summary

In this conversation, Anna shares her journey as a world record apnea diver, discussing the mental and physical challenges of freediving, her early experiences with water, and how her diagnosis of multiple sclerosis led her to a healthier lifestyle. She emphasizes the importance of mental preparation, the joy of diving, and the lessons learned from both successes and failures in her sport. Anna also reflects on the deeper connections between humans and water, and how freediving has shaped her perspective on life and health.

Takeaways

- Anna-Karina set a world record in apnea diving under challenging conditions.

- Breath-holding can be a blissful experience when the mind is free of expectations.

- Early experiences with water shaped her love for diving.

- Freediving provided a sense of community and belonging.

- The diagnosis of multiple sclerosis prompted a lifestyle change towards health.

- Mental preparation is crucial for success in freediving.

- The joy of diving comes from being present in the moment.

- Every dive is a learning experience, whether good or bad.

- The mind plays a significant role in physical performance.

- Freediving teaches resilience and the importance of self-care.

Chapters

00:00 Setting the Stage: A World Record Dive

02:57 The Journey to Breath-Holding Mastery

06:02 Early Memories: Finding Comfort Underwater

08:43 Navigating Life: From Partying to Passion for Diving

11:47 Facing Challenges: The Diagnosis of MS

17:48 Transformative Realizations: Lifestyle Changes and Health

20:44 Consistency and Consequence: Staying on Track

22:46 The World Record Dive: Preparation and Execution

35:18 Embracing the Cold: The Dive Reflex

36:27 The Thrill of Free Falling

38:48 Finding Relaxation in High-Stakes Diving

40:35 Navigating Sounds and Focus Underwater

43:14 Understanding Limits and Safety in Freediving

44:10 The Importance of Protocols in Competitions

49:39 Euphoria and Emotional Management After Dives

53:01 Lessons from Diving: Mindset and Life Philosophy

54:28 Health and Personal Growth Through Freediving

57:58 Getting Started in Freediving: First Steps

59:18 Facing Fears: A Terrifying Dive Experience

01:02:52 The Mirror of the Psyche: Diving and Self-Reflection

01:03:15 Conversations with the Ocean: Philosophical Insights

01:04:18 Dinner with Marine Life: Wisdom of the Whales

A Princeton-educated architect walks into a water treatment plant and violently shakes microplastics into a bathtub.

What sounds like a joke written by an intoxicated AI is reality for Nathaniel Banks.

In this episode, we explore how thinking through problems from start to finish can help with the daunting task of solving the microplastic problem.

Nathaniel is CEO & Co-Founder of PolyGone. Nature inspired their filter technology, which can remove microplastics from different kinds of waterways.

We discuss how they came up with the idea, how they got it to work, and where the technology needs to go to have significant impact.

Get a glimpse into a mind that microplastics obviously haven't had any impact on yet.

Key Topics:

• The scale and health impacts of microplastic pollution
• How aquatic plants inspired a revolutionary filtration technology
• The journey from architecture to environmental innovation
• Real-world deployment and results from water treatment facilities
• The regulatory challenges and private sector opportunities
• What happens to collected microplastics and recycling innovations

Timeline:

• 00:00 - Introduction and Nathaniel's architecture background
• 27:00 - Deep dive into the microplastic solution technology
• 40:00 - Deployment results and real-world applications
• 55:00 - Future scaling plans and regulatory challenges