Dead or alive? How this marine ecologist (re)discovers (potentially) extinct species.

Episode Description

We're living through the Triple Planetary Crisis: climate change, biodiversity loss, and pollution. But while climate change dominates headlines, biodiversity loss quietly accelerates—our planet experiences its 6th mass extinction event.

Christina Biggs, a marine ecologist, dedicates her career to a deceptively simple question: Is this species really extinct?

In this episode, Christina takes us on expeditions from the Galapagos Islands to the deep sea's mesophotic zone, where she searches for species scientists haven't documented in decades. We explore how she uses cutting-edge eDNA technology to detect life we can't see, why technical divers risk their lives at 75 meters depth, and how a coral everyone thought was extinct adapted to survive by moving deeper.

But this conversation goes beyond lost species. Christina explains why a single centipede matters to the air we breathe, how aquariums serve as genetic arks for species with nowhere else to go, and why understanding ocean ecosystems—particularly the understudied deep sea—determines our own survival.

This isn't a doom-and-gloom conversation. Christina shares stories of hope: sharks being rewilded in Raja Ampat, coral refuges in unexpected places, and local communities becoming the stewards of cutting-edge conservation technology.

Whether you've never thought about marine ecosystems or you're already ocean-obsessed, this episode will change how you see the interconnectedness of life on Earth.

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  Memorable Moments

  [08:14] What a conservation ecologist's "two separate days" look like—from spreadsheets to ship-bound expeditions

  [13:03] The staggering numbers: we're losing hundreds of species daily in the 6th mass extinction

  [18:46] How to identify which species on the "lost" list face true extinction vs. just haven't been found

  [30:14] The mind-bending technology of eDNA: detecting life from discarded cells in water

  [42:03] The chicken-and-egg problem: finding DNA from species that haven't been sequenced yet

  [51:24] Technical divers who spend 4-5 hours underwater with complex gas mixtures—and why they do it

  [54:46] The Wellington's coral rediscovery: how a "shallow water" coral survived by adapting to the deep

  [01:03:16] The ReShark project: a conservation success story that restores hope

  Guest Bio

  Christina Biggs is a marine conservation ecologist who ran the Lost Species Program, searching for species that haven't been documented in over 10 years. Her work spans from Madagascar to the Galapagos Islands, combining traditional fieldwork with emerging technologies like eDNA sampling. Previously, she worked at the Monterey Bay Aquarium and Research Institute. Christina specializes in making conservation science accessible and is currently developing tools that allow recreational divers to contribute to reef biodiversity data.

  Links & Resources

  Support Christina's Research:

  • Experiment.com - California Biodiversity Institute Monterey Study (crowdfunding platform for scientific research)

  
  

  Organizations Mentioned:

  • IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature) Red List
  • Association of Zoos and Aquariums (AZA)
  • World Association of Zoos and Aquariums (WAZA)
  • Schmidt Ocean Institute
  • ReShark Project (Raja Ampat & Thailand)
  • Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
    

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Where The Ocean Meets: Benedict Wermter (Bule Sampah)

Episode Summary

From German punk dropout to Indonesia's most influential plastic pollution educator, Benedict Wermter has lived multiple lives before turning 40. In this conversation, Benedict shares his journey from anti-establishment teenager to investigative journalist to social media educator reaching 5+ million Indonesians monthly. He reveals shocking realities of waste management in Indonesia, including how plastic waste is burned to steam tofu, and explains why he believes behavioral change—not recycling—holds the key to solving our plastic crisis.

Guest Bio

Benedict Wermter, known online as "Bule Sampah" (White Trash), is a German investigative journalist turned environmental educator based in Indonesia. He was the first trainee at Correktiv, Germany's premier investigative journalism outlet, and produced documentaries including "The Recycling Myth" that aired on BBC and German television. Today, he reaches over 5 million Indonesians monthly through social media, educating communities about plastic pollution and waste prevention. He also founded a foundation and developed the SampApp for waste education.

Key Topics Discussed

The Punk Years & Early Rebellion

• Dropping out of school at 16 in industrial West Germany
• Joining punk communities and questioning capitalist structures
• The transition from rebellion to purposeful activism
• How anti-establishment attitudes evolved into investigative journalism

Investigative Journalism Career

• Training at Correktiv with founder David
• Learning that most scandals happen "in front of everybody's eyes"
• Power dynamics and conflicts of interest in media
• The complexity of truth in environmental reporting
  

Indonesia's Waste Crisis Reality

• Structural waste burning every afternoon across villages
• Children living on dump sites
• Plastic waste burned to steam tofu in factories
• Motor oil dumped directly onto trees
• The gap between tourist perception and reality

Building Bule Sampah

• Why he chose to educate rather than investigate
• Reaching 5+ million Indonesians monthly on Instagram
• Consumer behavior change vs. recycling solutions
• Measuring impact through surveys and the SampApp
  

Solutions & Hope

• Why "zero waste" is misleading - better to have 10 people reduce waste 10% than 1 person reduce 80%
• The importance of connecting households to proper infrastructure
• Extended Producer Responsibility and regulatory frameworks
• Economic incentives for waste collection and management

Memorable Quotes

"The majority of scandals are not the secret things that need to be uncovered... the power abuse and the things that are actually scoops are happening in front of everybody's eyes."

"There is no way you can hate plastics. Plastics are the tool of our time. We all use them every day. It's clearly the age of plastics."

"Zero waste is also misleading. Like nobody can be zero waste. It's a bullshit term. We want 10 people to be 10% less wasteful."

"Waste management starts with consumption, obviously, and not with managing waste."

Episode Highlights & Timestamps

[00:00] Introduction and the Nazi chase vs. Bulgarian scrapyard comparison

[01:22] From motivated student to punk dropout

[05:06] What triggers Benedict about "the establishment"

[08:19] Learning about power and injustice in journalism

[11:28] Why crude characters and environmental stories

[19:34] The paradox of hating plastic while using smartphones

[23:51] Does Indonesia really care about plastic pollution?

[25:57] The reality beyond Bali's tourist image

[31:34] The tofu factories burning plastic story

[36:21] How your baseline adjusts to extreme conditions

[37:25] Building a 5+ million person reach

[42:04] From outside critic to industry participant

[44:10] Success stories and concrete impact

Will Pearson: Building a Positive Vision for the Future | Where The Ocean Meets

Episode Summary

We haven't had a positive vision of the future since Star Trek in the 1960s. In this episode, I sit down with Will Pearson, co-founder of Ocean Bottle, to design a roadmap for what comes next. From reshaping capitalism to putting the ocean at the center of our economy, we explore how to build systems where businesses give more than they take and planetary healing becomes profitable.

Guest

Will Pearson - Co-Founder of Ocean Bottle, Forbes 30 Under 30, B-Corp advocate

Ocean Bottle has collected over 22 million kg of ocean-bound plastic while building an 8-figure revenue business. Will is also the founder of B+, an initiative bringing together the world's most ambitious companies on climate and nature.

Key Topics

Reshaping Capitalism: Start, Stop, Keep

• Why businesses that heal the planet should be profitable
• The B+ initiative: connecting regenerative startups with global corporations
• Moving from businesses that reduce harm to businesses that create positive impact

Ocean-Centered Future

• Putting ocean health at the center of economic planning
• Marine protected areas and biodiversity restoration
• Why we need sharks back in the Mediterranean
  

Plastic Economy Transformation

• Design problems: 400-year materials for week-long products
• Breaking plastic's dependence on oil industry byproducts
• Building collection infrastructure that provides income opportunities

Media and Culture Change

• Why constructive optimism beats fear-based messaging
• Making scientists and ocean researchers the new cultural heroes
• The need for platforms that celebrate positive solutions

Memorable Quotes

"We need to flip the question - instead of asking why environmental companies should be allowed to profit, we should ask why companies destroying the planet are allowed to make money."

"Businesses need to give more than what they take. We're getting to a point where companies reduce negative externalities to zero and actually drive positive impact."

"Without a doubt, if we can protect the ocean and allow it to regenerate itself, it will be our biggest ally against climate change and the biodiversity crisis."

Resources Mentioned

• B+ Initiative - Community of ambitious climate and nature companies
• Atmos & Earthrise Studios - Instagram channels for sustainability stories
• "Ocean" by David Attenborough - Book recommendation
• "Blue Mind" - Book on human connection to water
• CleanHub - My company partnering with Ocean Bottle on collection

Connect with Will

• Ocean Bottle: oceanbottle.co
• LinkedIn: Will Pearson

Connect with Me

• CleanHub: cleanhub.com
• LinkedIn: Joel Tasche

This episode is part of Where The Ocean Meets, exploring the intersection of business, sustainability, and ocean conservation. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.