In this episode of the Trust and Influence in B2B podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Cat Dutton, VP of Global Growth at Pega. Drawing from her experience in senior positions at three global tech companies, Dutton shares how trust serves as the foundation for effective marketing leadership—from stakeholder relationships to team management and customer engagement.

Topics Covered

• Building credibility with skeptical stakeholders (finance, IT, sales)
• Transparent approaches to demonstrating marketing ROI
• Trust dynamics in account-based marketing
• Creating authentic team cultures
• Evolution of thought leadership and partner strategies
• Customer advocacy as a trust multiplier

Key Conclusions

Listen First, Speak Second: Dutton emphasizes that truly understanding stakeholder needs requires genuine listening rather than assumption. "Take time to listen to what they're actually saying to you," she advises. This extends to language choices—her team replaced "leads" with "unqualified opportunities" when speaking with sales, transforming relationship dynamics.

Transparent ROI Reporting: Rather than highlighting only successes, Dutton advocates showing both wins and challenges in marketing performance. Her team's CMO dashboard explicitly identifies underperforming investments alongside proposals for improvement, building finance stakeholder trust through honesty.

Co-Creation Builds Trust: For account-based marketing, Dutton rejects isolation in favor of collaboration with customers. "Spend time with customers. Create plans together, not in isolation," she recommends. This approach has been so successful that Pega's ABM initiatives are often promoted on client intranets—reaching broader audiences than initially targeted.

For marketers stepping into leadership roles, Dutton's parting advice is simple: Spend more time with people than seems necessary, over-communicate consistently, delegate confidently, and above all, "Don't lie to people, just don't do it."

In this thought-provoking episode of the Trust and Influence Podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Steve Mudd, CEO of Talentless AI, about the transformative impact of artificial intelligence on B2B thought leadership and marketing.

With a colorful career spanning roles as Marketing Director at NetApp and positions at Ogilvy & Mather, Mudd has emerged as a prominent voice in the AI marketing space. His company name "Talentless AI" encapsulates his philosophy: "You don't have to be talented to use AI. You don't have to have any particular skill. It kind of allows you to level up in a number of ways."

Mudd argues that AI is fundamentally dismantling traditional information hierarchies: "Every website out there is crap compared to the information that I can get out of GPT right now." This forces marketers to reconsider where and how they provide value when AI can synthesize information more efficiently than traditional content platforms.

One of the most concerning trends Mudd identifies is what he calls "thought farming" – the industrial-scale production of AI-generated content that mimics thought leadership but exists primarily to drive engagement. This proliferation of content is diluting platform value and driving audiences away from traditional information sources like LinkedIn.

The most effective thought leadership is shifting from corporate publications to individual voices who consistently contribute to ongoing conversations. Mudd surprisingly identifies TikTok as his primary source for thought leadership content, noting figures like Scott Galloway and Rory Sutherland who leverage the platform's format for personal connection.

As someone who regularly experiments with AI avatars, Mudd offers fascinating insights into how synthetic media is blurring the lines between human and artificial communication. He describes creating videos so convincing that "people can't tell" they're AI-generated, while emphasizing that transparency remains crucial for maintaining trust.

"It's the rise of the English major," Mudd suggests when discussing the skills future marketers will need. Success in an AI-augmented world requires two critical capabilities: "First, the ability to communicate with language... Second, understanding if the output is good or not – that discernment of quality."

While acknowledging legitimate concerns about AI's impact on trust, Mudd maintains a fundamentally optimistic outlook. He views AI not as a threat to marketing jobs but as a creative opportunity to transcend limitations and explore new forms of communication.

His warning to B2B organizations is clear: "There will be a lot of companies who use AI as an excuse to do what they've always done, which is downsize every so often or cut budgets. But the reality is, if you don't lean in, it's just a matter of time before you're disrupted."

In an era where anyone can generate content at scale, the competitive advantage comes not from quantity but from quality, authenticity, and the ability to genuinely move conversations forward. That's the true challenge and opportunity of thought leadership in the AI era.

Listen to the full episode to discover how kittens, digital twins, and the future of B2B marketing intersect in ways you never imagined.

In this episode of the 'Trust & Influence in B2B' podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Rob Mitchell, thought leadership expert and founder of Longitude, which later became part of the Financial Times Group. Having recently moved on from FT Longitude, Rob brings unique insights from his experience working with major B2B brands including Deloitte, Siemens, and Credit Suisse. With his background in journalism at both the Economist and the Financial Times, Rob offers a distinctive perspective on thought leadership as a sophisticated marketing discipline.

Topics Covered

• The evolution of thought leadership from a niche activity to a mainstream B2B marketing approach.
• The three essential ingredients that define effective thought leadership.
• The distinction between "purist" and "pragmatist" approaches to thought leadership.
• Common mistakes organizations make when developing thought leadership programs.
• How to develop a portfolio approach that aligns with different stages of the buyer journey.
• The impact of AI on both content production and consumption.
• The growing importance of trust and authenticity in the AI era.
• When thought leadership is (and isn't) the right investment for B2B organizations.

Key conclusions

1. Thought leadership as a craft: Effective thought leadership requires three key ingredients: fresh thinking (though not necessarily groundbreaking), relevance to the audience's needs, and brand distinctiveness. "If you're just coming up with messaging or insights that are generic or could be produced by anybody, that's not thought leadership in my book," Mitchell emphasizes.
2. The pragmatist approach: While "purist" thought leadership focuses on intellectual exploration without explicit commercial ties, Mitchell advocates for a more pragmatic approach that aligns with business objectives. This doesn't mean sacrificing quality but rather ensuring content supports specific marketing or commercial goals.
3. Portfolio strategy: Rather than expecting a single piece of thought leadership to accomplish multiple objectives, organizations should develop a portfolio approach. This begins with defining "what you want to be famous for" and cascades from high-level thought leadership to more technical content addressing specific buyer needs.
4. Trust as differentiator: As AI makes content production easier and potentially floods the market with mediocre material, trustworthiness becomes the critical differentiator. "That's going to be a massively important currency going forward for thought leadership," Mitchell notes, emphasizing consistency and credibility as essential attributes.
5. Audience-centric simplicity: Many organizations sabotage their thought leadership by taking an "inside-out" view, assuming audiences share their interests, or by overcomplicating their messages. Mitchell advocates for simplicity, clarity, and an outside-in perspective that starts with audience problems rather than organizational messages.

For B2B marketers navigating complex sales cycles with multiple stakeholders, thought leadership offers a powerful way to build the trust necessary for both initial engagement and long-term relationships. By applying Mitchell's frameworks, organizations can transform their approach from generic content marketing to strategic thought leadership that drives genuine business value.