In this profound episode of The Science of Leadership, host Tom Collins is joined by Colonel Lee Ellis (Ret. U.S. Air Force, former Vietnam POW, and author of Leading with Honor). Colonel Ellis spent five years, four months, and two weeks enduring the crucible of adversity in the Hanoi Hilton, forging indelible lessons about character, trust, and honor.

Colonel Ellis defines the honor code as telling the truth, keeping commitments, being ethical, and acting responsibly. He explains that courage is the centerpiece of honor—the willingness to suffer pain and punishment to sustain one's values.

The conversation dives into:

• The Temptation to Compromise: Colonel Ellis identifies the areas where leaders are most likely to fall short on honor: politics, money, and avoiding exposure of mistakes.
• The Power of Debriefing: He highlights the fighter pilot culture of intense debriefs (like those of the Thunderbirds) where leaders must "tell it like it is" and critique themselves and others to correct back quickly.
• Trust and Coherence: Tom Collins shares the science showing that honor restores coherence and builds the psychological safety essential for team performance.
• The Secure Leader: Colonel Ellis shares his model of moving from an anchor of insecurity (fear, shame, guilt) to a state of being secure through courage, commitment, and self-belief.

Colonel Ellis shares gripping personal accounts of torture and resilience in captivity, underscoring the lesson that while living with honor may involve suffering, it ultimately leads to healthier, more successful lives.

Also, I want to remind listeners about the release of my book, "The Four Stars of Leadership," a culmination of over three years of dedicated work, and I'm confident it will be an immensely interesting and helpful guide on your journey to becoming a better leader. Don't miss out on this essential resource—order your copy today at Amazon or Barnes & Nobles and share your thoughts with me!

Sharpen your leadership skills: Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app to ensure you don't miss an episode dedicated to helping you become a better leader.

To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

You can find out more about Colonel Ellis at his website, www.leadingwithhonor.com as well as find his blog at https://www.leadingwithhonor.com/blog/

References

Brown, M. E., Treviño, L. K., & Harrison, D. A. (2005). Ethical leadership: A social learning perspective for construct development and testing. Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 97(2), 117–134. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.obhdp.2005.03.002

Ellis, L. (2016). Engage with Honor: Building a Culture of Courageous Accountability. FreedomStar Media.

Ellis, L. (2012). Leading with Honor: Leadership Lessons from the Hanoi Hilton. Greenleaf Book Group.

Jin, S., Romano, A., Vignoles, V. L., Kirchner-Häusler, A., Rodríguez-Bailón, R., Cross, S. E., Yalçın, M. G., Harb, C., Husnu, S., Ishii, K., Karamaouna, P., Kafetsios, K., Kateri, E., Matamoros-Lima, J., Miniesy, R., Na, J., Pagliaro, S., Psaltis, C., Rabie, D., … Uskul, A. K. (2025). Honour, competition and cooperation across 13 societies. Nature Human Behaviour, 1–13. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-025-02308-0

In this episode of The Science of Leadership, host Tom Collins is joined by retired U.S. Air Force General Ellen Pawlikowski (Ph.D. in Chemical Engineering, former Commander of Air Force Materiel Command) to dissect the often-misunderstood component of Caring For Your People.

General Pawlikowski explains that true leadership Caring For is not "soft" or "sentimental" but rather a strategic necessity integrated into Courage, Competence, Commitment, and Compassion. She states, "I don't succeed if you don't succeed."

The conversation highlights that a leader's core responsibility is to be the Chief Obstacle Remover. General Pawlikowski shares a powerful example from Air Force Materiel Command, where aging IT infrastructure threatened to leave $60 billion unspent and required her to intervene personally with the Chief of Staff.

Key Takeaways:

• Caring is Preventative Maintenance: Leaders must invest in basic needs, tools, and training, as ignoring small problems (like unit confusion or outdated software) can lead to catastrophic failures.
• Understanding the Whole Person: Compassion means acknowledging that people have lives outside of work (family, elders, personal issues). Failure to allow time for these distractions leads to reduced cognitive energy and increased mistakes.
• Science of Care: Research confirms that when leaders care tangibly and structurally, morale, trust, and productivity all increase.

The General shares practical steps and an essential four-question framework for leaders to ask their teams to identify hidden obstacles and leverage existing expertise.

Also, I want to remind listeners about the release of my book, "The Four Stars of Leadership," a culmination of over three years of dedicated work, and I'm confident it will be an immensely interesting and helpful guide on your journey to becoming a better leader. Don't miss out on this essential resource—order your copy today at Amazon or Barnes & Nobles and share your thoughts with me!

Sharpen your leadership skills: Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app to ensure you don't miss an episode dedicated to helping you become a better leader.

To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

• Covey, S. M. R. (2006). The speed of trust: The one thing that changes everything. Simon & Schuster.
• Owens, B. P., & Hekman, D. R. (2016). How does leader humility influence team performance? The Leadership Quarterly, 27(5), 787–798.
• Kelloway, E. K., & Barling, J. (2010). Leadership development as an intervention in occupational health psychology. Work & Stress, 24(3), 260–279.
• McGregor, D. (1960). The Human Side of Enterprise. New York: McGraw-Hill.

In this episode of The Science of Leadership, host Tom Collins is joined by retired Lieutenant General Scott Dingle, the 45th Surgeon General of the U.S. Army, to explore the vital concept of the "Ever Learner"—a leader committed to continuous growth and adaptability.

General Dingle defines the Ever Learner as someone with the mindset and practice of continuously seeking knowledge, skills, and experience without stop. Both he and Tom emphasize that leadership is a journey, not a destination. General Dingle shares two powerful stories from his career—starting as a "Butterball" Second Lieutenant to serving as a Three-Star General—that illustrate the continuous need to adapt to chaos, crisis, and unexpected turns.

The hosts emphasize that settling for "good enough" allows adversaries (whether a competitor, a disease, or Ivan Drago) to win because they "aren't taking a day off." Leaders who stop evolving become extinct.

Key Takeaways for Becoming an Ever Learner:

• Adopt a Growth Mindset: Reframe "I don't know it" as "I don't know that yet," seeing challenges as opportunities to improve.
• Seek Feedback: Actively ask peers and those you lead for candid input, and receive it graciously.
• Reflect Regularly: Follow the example of leaders who review their experiences daily to extract lessons and become better tomorrow.
• Practice Humility: Acknowledge what you don't know and surround yourself with mentors and diverse voices to combat narrow perspective.

The scientific data supports this: leaders who model curiosity and learning foster psychological safety, resilience, performance, and organizational creativity throughout their teams.

Also, I want to remind listeners about the release of my book, "The Four Stars of Leadership," a culmination of over three years of dedicated work, and I'm confident it will be an immensely interesting and helpful guide on your journey to becoming a better leader. Don't miss out on this essential resource—order your copy today at Amazon or Barnes & Nobles and share your thoughts with me!

Sharpen your leadership skills: Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app to ensure you don't miss an episode dedicated to helping you become a better leader.

To learn more about the Science of Leadership, visit https://www.fourstarleaders.com/

• Barba Aragón MI, Jiménez Jiménez D, Sanz Valle R. Training and performance: The mediating role of organizational learning. Business Research Quarterly. 2014;17(3):161–173.
• Crans S., Bude V., Beausaert S., Segers M. (2021). Social informal learning and the role of learning climate: toward a better understanding of the social side of learning among consultants. Resour. Dev. Q.32 507–535.
• Dweck, C. S. (2006). Mindset: The new psychology of success. Random House.
• Edmondson, A. C. (1999). Psychological safety and learning behavior in work teams. Administrative Science Quarterly, 44(2), 350–383.
• Gong, Y., Huang, J. C., & Farh, J. L. (2009). Employee learning orientation, transformational leadership, and employee creativity: The mediating role of employee creative self-efficacy. Academy of Management Journal, 52(4), 765–778.
• Heifetz, R. A., Grashow, A., & Linsky, M. (2009). The practice of adaptive leadership: Tools and tactics for changing your organization and the world. Harvard Business Press.