Gratitude: I must express a sense real gratitude for David Bentley Hart coming onto the podcast. His books have indeed changed my life. The Atheist Delusions settled so many historical and theological questions that would constantly nag at my faith, and the Experience of God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss, that truly saved my faith. After reading that book, Atheism seemed so philosophically inept that it became patently absurd to doubt the existence of God as such. The Doors of the Sea was an incredible meditation upon the question of suffering, or theodicy, and his book on Christian history is both thorough and enticing. His essays have often challenged me, and I truly believe that “The Beauty of the Infinite” is one of the most important theological texts written for today. More so than almost any other, it tackles the questions raised by the postmodern philosophers, and excoriates them while nonetheless taking their arguments on their own terms. He demonstrates a complete mastery over the works of Nietzsche, Derrida, Deluxe, Guitarri, Levinas, etc. while being firmly grounded in an Orthodox patristic worldview, heavily influenced by Gregory of Nyssa and Maximus the Confessor. In this episode of The Pursuit of Beauty, theologian and philosopher David Bentley Hart joins Matthew Wilkinson to ask one of the oldest and most dangerous questions in the human story: what is beauty — and what happens when we lose it? What follows is not a polite academic exchange but a wide-ranging meditation on love, truth, art, and the presence of God in a disenchanted world.Hart begins by tracing the ancient idea that beauty, truth, and goodness are not separate virtues but one radiant reality — different ways of touching the same mystery. He explains that every genuine encounter with beauty is also an encounter with love and with being itself, and that the more deeply one pursues any of these transcendentals, the more they converge. Beauty, he argues, is not decoration on the surface of reality but the way reality discloses its own perfection.From there, the conversation turns to the modern world’s forgetfulness of beauty. Hart reflects on how contemporary art and culture often mistake novelty for vision, or transgression for depth. Drawing on examples from music and painting, he describes what happens when art loses its center in love — when creativity becomes an exercise in irony rather than an act of reverence. The result, he says, is not freedom but exhaustion: a civilization that can no longer recognize its own soul.Yet Hart is no pessimist. He insists that beauty still breaks through the ruins, that every authentic work of art — from Bach to Messiaen, from an icon to a poem — is an act of love made visible. Even when beauty wounds or overwhelms us, it does so because it reveals something truer than comfort: the longing for what we were made to behold. To experience beauty is to be called beyond oneself, toward the source of all being.At the heart of the interview lies Hart’s startling claim that “God is the beautiful, God is love — these all refer to the same simple reality.” In that single sentence, metaphysics becomes devotion. Beauty is not merely a sign of the divine; it is the divine made perceptible. Love and art, when they are genuine, participate in that same reality, bearing witness to the truth that creation itself is an act of aesthetic generosity.Matthew and Hart also explore the paradox of beauty and suffering — how the cross, the moment of supreme ugliness, becomes the revelation of perfect beauty. They ask whether our capacity to see the beautiful in what is broken might be the surest test of spiritual vision. Beauty, Hart suggests, does not flee from darkness; it transfigures it.The conversation closes with a vision both humbling and hopeful: a call to recover the contemplative gaze, to look at the world again as something loved into being.

“If I were the devil, I’d start by destroying beauty.”Composer Dr. John Wykoff joins Matthew Wilkinson on The Pursuit of Beauty Podcast for a rare, soul-stirring conversation about what beauty really is, why it matters, and how its loss is reshaping our civilization. In this wide-ranging dialogue, the two explore the deep relationship between aesthetics, ethics, and faith—and how recovering a sense of beauty could be the key to restoring both art and culture.Beauty, truth, and goodness have been intertwined for centuries, but in the modern world they’ve been pulled apart. Wykoff argues that when we relativize beauty, we eventually relativize morality itself. He explains why the decline of aesthetic judgment leads to moral confusion, how postmodernism flattened the hierarchy of values, and why artists and believers alike must learn again to “love what they create” rather than innovate for innovation’s sake. This is not an abstract discussion—it’s a diagnosis of our cultural sickness and a roadmap toward renewal.Drawing on the legacy of Alice Parker, Arvo Pärt, and Wendell Berry, Wykoff reveals how genuine art begins in love and humility. “Don’t arrange it if you don’t love it,” he says. “Start with love.” From his reflections on choral arranging and sacred song to his critique of technology’s impact on music, Wykoff calls artists to return to the human, the communal, and the incarnational. Beauty, he suggests, isn’t luxury—it’s spiritual warfare.Together, Wilkinson and Wykoff trace the collapse of beauty in modern art, the spiritual implications of digital sound, and the metaphysical truth hidden inside musical form. They discuss postmodernism, hierarchy, counterpoint, theology, philosophy of art, and the moral imagination—all through the lens of a Christian composer who writes fugues “before breakfast” to discipline his soul. What emerges is a vision of beauty as participation in divine order, where every note and brushstroke becomes an act of love.If you’ve ever felt that something sacred has gone missing from culture, this conversation will name what you’ve sensed. It’s a meditation on how art can heal the soul and how beauty leads us back to God.

video at end courtesy of Missouri State University Chorale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0_fk_s7eCs

Performed by the Missouri State University Men's Chorus at Juanita K. Hammons Hall for the Performing Arts in Springfield, MO on March 6, 2018.Missouri State University Men's Chorus - Cameron F. LaBarr, conductor“Gone Home”arr. John WykoffSoloist: Giovanni Hernandez, baritonePiano: Parker PayneVideo Production by Blake Richter Productions www.blakerichterproductions.comAudio Production by Darcy Stephens

In this in-depth conversation, Father Pimen Simon of the Old Rite Church of the Nativity of Christ in Erie, Pennsylvania, joins Matthew Wilkinson to discuss the history, theology, and music of the Old Believers within the Russian Orthodox tradition. He explains how the Old Rite preserved ancient liturgical forms, theology, and chant after Patriarch Nikon’s 17th-century reforms divided the Russian Church. (Pursuit of Beauty Podcast Episode 28)Fr. Pimen describes the rise of the priested and priestless Old Believers, their centuries of persecution, and the later process of reconciliation with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR). He recounts how his own community—once priestless—voted to reunite with ROCOR after the anathemas against the Old Rite were lifted in the 1970s at the urging of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, opening the way for a new generation of Old Ritualist parishes in America, Oregon, Alaska, and beyond.The discussion explores the difference between ritual and dogma, the meaning of liturgical continuity, and how Old Believers maintained their faith through exile and hardship. Fr. Pimen explains the structure of priestless worship, the role of the nastavnik, and how communities survived without the Eucharist for generations while preserving the fullness of prayer and devotion.A major focus is the Znamenny Chant, the ancient melodic system that the Old Rite preserved when the rest of the Russian Church turned toward Western polyphony. Fr. Pimen traces its origins to early Byzantine influence, showing how Old Believers kept this music alive in its pure, unharmonized form. He demonstrates how they have adapted the chant into English while remaining faithful to its medieval notation, stressing that chant should elevate the text rather than overwhelm it with musical display.The conversation also touches on wider themes—the balance between tradition and adaptation, the problem of “watered-down Orthodoxy,” the renewal of fasting and liturgical life, and the spiritual meaning of beauty and simplicity in worship.For musicians, historians, and anyone drawn to sacred art and living tradition, this episode offers an extraordinary window into one of Christianity’s most ancient surviving liturgical lineages.