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Today's episode is all about royalty. No, not those odd primates shuffling around palaces in crowns and robes, but the monarchs of the butterfly world.

We're joined by Dr. Jaap de Roode, Samuel Candler Dobbs Professor of Biology at Emory University, who's one of the world's experts in insect self-medication.

Yup, you heard that right.

You might have caught one of our episodes (42, 60) with Mike Huffman, who discovered chimpanzees self-medicating in Tanzania to ward off parasites. Well, if you thought that was amazing (it is!), wait'll you hear Jaap talk about monarch butterflies!

After sharing his background in parasitology and population ecology, Jaap describes his work on medicative behaviors in monarch butterflies. From there, we go on to a whole bunch of other topics, like:

• how parasites affect monarch health, especially during their migrations
• the incredible diversity of animal medicative behaviors
• The role of citizen science in monarch conservation
• The importance of science communication in raising awareness

We also talk about Jaap's forthcoming book, Doctors by Nature: How Ants, Apes and Other Animals Heal Themselves, due out from Princeton University Press on March 4, 2025.

When we recorded the interview in spring 2023, Jaap was actually in Japan visiting Mike Huffman to talk about this book, so Mike joined us for the interview.

For anyone whose interested, I noticed that Jaap started a podcast of his own out of Emory University called Virulent Vortex. Check that out if you're interested in "infectious diseases across scales from molecules and pathogens to populations and pandemics, and everything in between" (from their website).

As always, I thoroughly enjoyed having this conversation, and learned a lot from Jaap about butterflies and beyond.

Disclaimer: The PrimateCast in no way, shape or form supports self-medicating with cigarette butts like those inventive urban birds in Mexico!

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In this episode of The PrimateCast, your host sits down with science communicator Amanda Mathieson, Head of Public Engagement, Education and Communications at Biorbic, Ireland's National Bioeconomy Research Centre.

She's also a pioneer in the space of developing STEM-themed escape rooms. And that was the main topic of discussion in the interview.

Throughout the episode, Amanda offers insightful anecdotes and creative ideas that reveal the potential of escape rooms as educational tools. We uncover the nuances of designing these immersive settings, from overcoming teamwork challenges to incorporating actors to enhance the experience.

About STEM-themed escape rooms, Amanda notes in the interview that, "It really levels the playing field… Gives people a chance to excel at something that is science based but they might think, ‘oh wow, I did that, I beat that, even though I don’t think of myself as a sciency person'."

In an article she coauthored in the journal Research for All, Amanda writes that, "In an engagement scenario, perceived learning may be more valuable than actual learning, as this relates to self-efficacy and the likelihood of continued engagement.”

Amanda paints a vivid picture of how these innovative approaches can promote a love for science and encourage critical thinking, making learning an enjoyable adventure for all ages.

During the pandemic, Amanda also started her own podcast, conversing with science communicators in different fields and exploring how people can get into such roles. We touched on Amanda's own career path in the interview, but to learn more about the field and some of the people in it, check out that limited series podcast here.

In addition to her role at Biorbic, Amanda is also Coordinator of the STEAM Summer School, which provides practical training in communicating science through the arts.

And, she is currently working toward her doctorate at University College Dublin’s Earth Institute, where she studies “play”. We end the interview with a discussion of learning through video games like Age of Empires, and board games like Pandemic and Daybreak.

As Amanda notes in closing, we all need to play more! And if we can do a little learning at the same time? Well, all the better.

Photo Credit: Amanda Mathieson.

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The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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Explore zoo animal welfare with Dr. Lance J. Miller, a leading authority in animal welfare science at Brookfield Zoo Chicago, formerly Chicago Zoological Society's Brookfield Zoo.

Lance is Vice President of Animal Welfare Science at Brookfield Zoo Chicago, but he also holds a slough of other appointments.

He’s Chair of the Alliance of Marine Mammal Parks and Aquariums Animal Welfare Committee, an Advisor to the Association of Zoos and Aquariums’ (AZA) Research and Technology Committee, Animal Welfare Committee, and the Behavioral Scientific Advisory Group, and he’s a Steering Committee Member for AZA’s Ambassador Animal Scientific Advisory Group.

Lance is also internationally active in the field, currently serving as the Vice-Chair for the World Association of Zoos and Aquarium's (WAZA) Ethics and Animal Welfare Committee, and as Chair of the WAZA Ethics Subcommittee.

There's a lot to take in here. We talk about:

• the difference between animal rights and welfare
• going beyond the five freedoms to providing opportunities to thrive
• the cetacean welfare study - the largest multi-institutional study of cetacean welfare in existence
• behavioral diversity, behavioral stereotypies, and other indicators of indicator of animal welfare
• how technology like Zoo PhysioTrack and ZooMonitor are reshaping the landscape of animal welfare monitoring
• the ethics of animals in zoos and the perceptions of visitors in relation to conservation and welfare

This episode will enrich your understanding of a complex, interdisciplinary field that blends science and ethics and showcases in the best case human compassion and commitment to the animals we keep at zoos and aquariums.

I hope you enjoy the conversation!

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The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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In this episode I sit down with my friend and colleague, cognitive scientist Dr. Nicolas Claidiere from the Center for Research in Psychology and Neuroscience at Aix-Marseille University.

Nico was on the podcast once before, in episode 30 when we recorded from the International Primatological Society's conference in Hanoi, Vietnam, back in 2014.

So let's call this a 10-year reunion!

In the episode, we talk about:

• bloodletting (Paywall), I know, right? Nico thought it was a weird question, too!
• the most tech-savvy baboons in the world, who also boast some of the highest screen times around
• but also, why they are good subjects to study social cognition with
• The emergence of conventions in baboon society, like shaking hands, or driving on the right/left, but not!
• cumulative cultural evolution, and why it might not be scalable in non-human species
• the relationship between biological and cultural evolution
• and the role of mentors in shaping one's career
• curiosity, in humans and beyond ...

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“You need social learning and you need technological reasoning to get technological evolution. The question is, what evolved first and what is the most important." (Nicolas Claidiere)
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I found this to be a remarkable conversation about the evolution of technological reasoning, social learning and cultural evolution. It offers a reflection on the broader implications of social dynamics and cognitive science, and really highlights what incredible insights can come from one of the most innovative research labs you're likely to find out there.

I hope you enjoy the interview as much as I did! And learn a lot from it, too...

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The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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What happens when a primatologist and podcaster leaves behind an academic career in Japan to embrace a new chapter in wildlife conservation in Canada?

Crickets on the show, for one...

Join me as I share my emotional decision to move on from Kyoto University and take up the role of Senior Scientist, Wildlife Conservation at the Wilder Institute / Calgary Zoo. The challenges of uprooting my family, the bittersweet farewells to a cherished community, and the thrill of new beginnings all mixed up in this candid narrative.

The episode is one part explanation for a year-long absence from podcasting, one part call-to-action as I wrestle with where to go with the podcast from here.

We're now 9 episodes away from 100. My promise to you is that we'll get there, possibly sooner than you think. But beyond that?

That's where I need your help. Here's what you can do:

1. Send in ratings and reviews! Wherever you listen to the show. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. Platform X. Whatever. These will help grow the podcast and tell me how I'm doing, and whether you get value out of the show.
2. Reach out through social media, through the podcast website, or via theprimatecast@gmail.com. See below for details on how to reach me.
3. Donate! Make a small one-time donation, or become a monthly subscriber for a small fee. Shout outs and deep appreciation to anyone who supports the show. Your support will directly influence whether we carry on beyond the 100 episode benchmark.

This episode is not just a story of change, but a rallying call to join me on this new path where our shared passions for wildlife and science communication can drive the PrimateCast community onward.

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The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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In today’s installment of the podcast, I’m really excited to share a fascinating conversation I had with Dr. Tecumseh Fitch about the evolution of cognition and communication.

Tecumseh Fitch is Professor of Cognitive Biology at the University of Vienna where he co-founded the Department of Cognitive Biology and plays a leading role in the radically interdisciplinary Vienna Cognitive Science Hub, where they gather biologists, psychologists, neuroscientists, and computer scientists, and mix them with linguists, philosophers and musicologists to really understand cognition and communication in its broadest sense.

But more than that, Tecumseh Fitch is an icon in the fields of cognitive biology and language evolution - he literally wrote the textbook on the The Evolution of Language. His mastery of these topics are on full display in this conversation, as are his storytelling skills.

“one way of seeing cognitive science is it’s the triumph of mentalism over behaviorism” (Tecumseh Fitch)

We ended up with a rich tapestry of insights into how language and cognition evolved, how they shape the lives of animals across the spectrum - from bees to naked mole rats to chimpanzees - and how they’ve set the scene for our own human experience.

So, if you want to hear us meander from American Civil War generals to the question of why dogs can’t dance, or find out why macaques could anatomically ask questions like “will you marry me” but to my knowledge are not known to have ever done so, then stick around for the next hour plus and I guarantee you will not be disappointed.

Other topics in this interview include:

• call production (vocal) learning
• Hoover the Talking Seal
• the evolution of musicality, singing and rhythmicity
• great ape language projects
• AI and animal communication
• On Darwin and why it has taken so long to accept the idea of animal minds
• General William Tecumseh Sherman and Tecumseh Sherman Fitch I

I always learn a lot through the conversations I have for The PrimateCast, but I gotta say that this one had me cognitively locked in. I hope it does the same for you.

Related episodes:

• (#72) A conversation about what music means to us, and monkeys, with Dr. Charles (Chuck) Snowdon
• (#23) Conversations about Communication from the 74th Annual Congres

Support the show

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

Here's what you can do to get in touch!

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For this episode, I sat down in the studio with evolutionary anthropologist Dr. Laura Buck in the Research Centre for Evolutionary Anthropology and Palaeoecology of Liverpool John Moores University.

Dr. Susumu Tomiya of CICASP also joined the conversation.

After waxing on the plausibility that some ancient hominins in cold climates might have hibernated - spoiler alert! Not very - Laura describes the evolutionary and developmental processes that lead to adaptations and behavioral responses to the cold.

We talk about human cold adaptation and how they relate to those of Neanderthals, and how patterns emerge to help species thrive in thermally-inhospitable places.

Laura describes her current research, and how scientists might have overlooked a potentially critical evolutionary force among mammals: hybridisation.

We touch on the idea of genetic rescue for conservation, and whether the "grolar bear", a hybrid between grizzlies and polar bears, might - and that’s a controversial might! - might allow polar bear genes to survive climate warming in the arctic.

Laura’s work on hybridisation has focused on macaques, but she argues that what we learn from studying hybrid macaque bones can help us understand many of the mysteries of evolution.

She touches on the modern techniques used in geometric morphometrics - simply put, measuring bones in cool ways to understand evolutionary processes - including the future role of AI in the process.

Laura closes with the idea of niche construction, where it’s not only how we and other species adapt to the environments around us, but also how we change those environments ourselves, leading to the conclusion that in many ways we are responsible for our own environments of evolutionary adaptedness.

Other topics covered in the interview:

• Non-adaptationist explanations and just-so stories in human evolution
• Fieldwork fails with technology in scanning and measuring bones
• Nasal air conditioning
• climate adaptations comparing prehistoric humans in Japan with Japanese macaques
• Hybridization and evolution of the primate pelvis

As the Northern hemisphere gea

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The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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In today’s lecture, Dr. Paula Pebsworth joined us from her home in Texas to give a lecture titled “You never know where life will take you: an interdisciplinary and unconventional path”.

This lecture was extra special for me, because Paula and I were grad students together at Kyoto University’s Primate Research Institute over a decade ago, both under the supervision of Mike Huffman. I’ve missed my friend over the intervening years, along with her family - who also play a feature role in her talk - so it was wonderful getting back together for this event.

Apart from the normal dose of nostalgia that such reunions can bring, I was reminded of what we lost when the Primate Research Institute was restructured in the spring of 2022 - a place where minds met and grew together, where budding and rooted primatologists alike were mixed and incubated and sent off to do amazing things wherever life after PRI took them.

And what an interesting life Paula has had, both before and after her time in Japan. Paula is an independent scientist who has had professional roles as a Research Coordinator for Wildcliff Nature Reserve in South Africa, a Post-doctoral Research Associate and adjunct associate at the National Institute of Adv. Studies in Bangalore, India, a Scientific Coordinator at Cloudbridge Nature Reserve in Costa Rica, and a head scientist for an environmental consulting firm in Saudi Arabia.

Through it all, she has worked toward tackling the monumental challenge of managing human-nonhuman primate conflict and coexistence, the topic she spends most of the lecture covering in tantalizing detail.

But would you imagine that she started out her professional career as a chemist testing wine in the California vineyards? It doesn’t seem obvious, but Paula manages to weave this background into her studies of antiparasite strategies and self-medication in chimpanzees and baboons.

And no, she wasn’t getting her subjects drunk on wine! But you’ll have to stay tuned to find out how it all makes sense in the career of this thoughtful and innovative primatologist.

Now, Paula is just about to pack up and head over to Japan herself in a few days, for an event where she’ll be speaking about human-nonhuman primate coexistence at Kyoto University. I can’t wait to meet up with her there and catch up.

Paula has also agreed to follow this lecture up with a proper conversation for the primateCast, so stay tuned for part two in the near future. I took a lot of notes during her lecture and have a lot of things to follow up on.

Support the show

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

Here's what you can do to get in touch!

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