In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Beth and Jeff McCord—bestselling authors and founders of Your Enneagram Coach—to unpack the powerful story behind one of the most influential faith-based coaching movements in the world.

After a devastating church transition left them questioning their purpose, the McCords found themselves in an unexpected season of rebuilding.

What began with financial uncertainty, part-time jobs, and late-night brainstorming sessions soon grew into a global platform serving millions.

They share openly about loss, marriage tension, risk, recovery, and the surprising ways God used their pain to prepare them for something new.

Takeaways :

👉 The church role that went sideways—and the sabbatical that forced a reset

👉 Beth’s entrepreneurial spark (platform skills, first Instagram posts, the scrappy first coach cohort)

👉 Jeff’s recovery & reframing season (counseling, ACOA, learning to learn-and-act)

👉 The catalytic moment: Ian Cron’s book hits and demand surges

👉 Why they launched Beth’s company (not under Jeff’s) to rewrite old patterns

👉 “Building while flying”: hiring help, customer support, and sustainable rhythms

👉 Redefining success beyond a church title—serving more people in new ways

👉 How their latest work (More Than Your Number) blends IFS with the Enneagram to navigate the inner world through transition
This Episode Is for You If…

• You’ve been through a ministry/job disruption and need a hopeful, practical blueprint
• You and your spouse are navigating new roles while building something together
• You’re curious how small experiments (and a lot of faithfulness) compound into a movement
• You want to see how Enneagram insight + recovery work shaped a resilient second act
• If you liked this video, please give it a thumbs up 👍, subscribe, and share it with your friends.

📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode31-beth-jeff-mccord/

In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Tracey Gee—leadership coach, consultant, and author of The Magic of Knowing What You Want—to explore how desire, faith, and small experiments create aligned momentum after a disruptive transition.

Tracey shares how a missed promotion shattered her sense of identity—and how a simple 40-day practice (doing one thing each day she genuinely wanted) helped her reconnect with God, recover her agency, and begin imagining a new future.

Takeaways:

👉 Why desire is an honest doorway to clarity (you can’t fake what brings you alive)

👉 The “question parking lot”: permission, pragmatic, competency, and capital questions—and when to use them

👉 The Authentic Alignment Pathway (Calibration, Expansion, Experimentation, Integration)

👉 Why you don’t think your way to clarity—you live your way into it

👉 How to engage disappointment so it moves you closer to what you want

👉 How faith and desire cooperate (not compete) in discernment

This Episode Is for You If…

• You’re a faith-based leader in transition—between seasons and craving aligned momentum
• You’re tired of autopilot and want a practical way to listen to God in your desires
• You keep getting stuck in “am I allowed / is it realistic / am I qualified / can I afford it?” loops
• You want right-sized experiments to build clarity this month

📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode30-tracey-gee/

In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Michael Shahan—a licensed therapist, Enneagram specialist, and IFS practitioner—who helps people shift from self-judgment to self-leadership through deeper self-awareness and compassion.

Michael’s journey began unexpectedly when a couple he counseled discovered the Enneagram, transforming their marriage—and sparking Michael’s passion for using this powerful tool in his practice.

But it wasn’t until he faced his own fears, mistyped his own Enneagram number, and embraced the discomfort of self-discovery that his work took on new meaning.

Together, we explore why lasting change begins with curiosity instead of shame, how our most uncomfortable emotions hold the keys to freedom, and what it really means to flourish by accepting ourselves exactly as we are.

This conversation is for anyone wrestling with anxiety, secretly judging their own struggles, or feeling ready for deeper self-understanding—but unsure where to begin.

Takeaways:

👉 Why awareness alone can spark powerful transformation

👉 How to recognize when fear is quietly driving your decisions

👉 Why the parts of yourself you resist the most need compassion, not criticism

👉 What Michael means when he says, “The problem is the problem, not you”

👉 How Internal Family Systems (IFS) can help you understand your inner conflicts

👉 Why acceptance isn’t resignation—it’s empowerment

👉 The hidden connection between spirituality and emotional health

👉 How the Enneagram can reveal your blind spots and your gifts

👉 Why real flourishing begins with accepting your fears rather than escaping them

This Episode Is for You If…

• You feel stuck repeating patterns you know aren’t serving you

• You’ve experienced anxiety, self-doubt, or shame around your inner struggles

• You’re secretly wondering if your coping strategies are doing more harm than good

• You’re tired of fighting yourself and ready for deeper peace and clarity

• You want a practical path to self-compassion—not just positive thinking
  

📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode28-michael-shahan/

In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Andrew Simila—executive coach, associate partner at Novus Global, and former pastor—who helps leaders live beyond their default future and into what he calls the generative future.

After 15 years in ministry, Andrew resigned from his pastoral role without a clear next step. What followed was a season of deep exploration, honest questions, and a slow but powerful reinvention.

Together, we explore what it means to live with curiosity, how to ask “What do I want?” without shame, and why ownership is often the doorway to transformation.

This is a conversation for anyone feeling stuck, frustrated, or dreaming of something different—but afraid to say it out loud.

Takeaways:

👉 Why every leader underestimates what they’re capable

👉 How to give yourself permission to want something new

👉 What Andrew means by “Growth happens on the hook, not off it”

👉 Why ministry is a function—not a title

👉 The difference between comfort and calling

👉 What the F.A.C.T. loop is—and how to know when you're in it

👉 Why vision without values is dangerous

👉 How to live with curiosity—in life, work, and relationship

👉 Why Andrew believes feedback is a gift, not a threat

This Episode Is for You If...

• You’ve left (or are considering leaving) a leadership role
  

• You’re questioning your next chapter—but scared of letting go
  

• You’re carrying guilt around asking, “What do I want?”
  

• • You’re tired of surviving and want to explore what thriving might look like

  
  

  • You know it’s time for a change—and don’t want to wait for a collapse

  
  

  📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode27-andrew-simila/

In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Joe Freudenberg—former youth pastor turned entrepreneur, coach, and founder of Pickleball CourtPro.

Joe’s journey is one many vocational leaders will resonate with: a quiet realization that the life he’d built no longer aligned with the mission he felt called to live.

Joe shares what it was like to leave vocational ministry without a clear next step, the slow and often disorienting season that followed, and how unlikely mentors and manual labor helped him rediscover provision, purpose, and possibility.

From flipping eBay items in a basement to building pickleball courts and coaching other dads, Joe’s story is a powerful testament to how God uses the in-between.

We talk about the emotional toll of transition, what it means to rebuild not just a career but a sense of calling, and how Joe’s family is now living out a vision he first shared in his twenties—this time, funded by his own business.

He reflects on what kept him going when he wanted to quit, how finding “the right person” made all the difference, and why flourishing, for him, is measured by the fruit he sees in his home.

Joe also shares how he’s now helping other dads leave ministry, start businesses, and pursue a deeper alignment between calling, capacity, and conviction.

Takeaways:

👉 Why Joe left ministry without bitterness—but with deep confusion

👉 What wandering seasons can teach us if we give them space

👉 How assembling IV pump parts created mental room for transformation

👉 The story behind Joe’s first court build—and the conversation that made it possible

👉 Why ministry leaders often underestimate their transferable soft skills

👉 The importance of asking for help—and how one person can shift everything

👉 What Joe believes flourishing looks like now as a husband, father, and business owner

👉 Why creating space for your family’s vision might matter more than ever

This episode is for anyone who’s left ministry, is questioning their next move, or is in the messy middle between identity and income. If you’ve ever wondered, “What do I do with all these skills I can’t put on a resume?”—this one’s for you.

📝 Show Notes at: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode25-joe-freudenberg/