Anthony DeShazer shares how his protective approach to customer management earned him the reputation as "The VP of No" and how he transformed his leadership style to foster cross-functional collaboration. He reveals the journey from gatekeeping to enabling teams through a mindset shift from "No" to "Yes, and" thinking.

• Taking customer ownership to harmful extremes created organizational friction
• Solving customer confusion by requiring all teams to get "passports" to customer land
• Shifting from "No" to "Yes, but" to "Yes, and" approaches transformed team dynamics
• The customer journey must be owned by the company, not individual departments
• Creating data-driven triggers helps align teams around customer advocacy opportunities
• AI is revolutionizing how CS teams identify patterns and predict customer behaviors
• Revenue is a "full-contact team sport" requiring all departments to work together
• Executive coaching provides valuable perspective for leadership development

If you're in customer success, sales or other go-to-market motions, stick around to hear from the best. For more frameworks, tools, and automated playbooks, check out jodastech.com and subscribe to our newsletter.

🎙️ Guest: Anthony DeShazor
Chief Customer Officer | GTM & RevOps Architect | Former “VP of No”

📣 Find Anthony:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adeshazor/

📌 In This Episode:
Anthony joins Joe Di Grande on Customer [Un]Success to unpack the lessons behind earning — and evolving beyond — the title of “VP of No.” He shares how customer success leaders can go from gatekeeping to growth-enabling.

🔥 Topics Covered:
🟣 The real story behind “VP of No” and “Helicopter CCO”
🟣 How to shift from “No” → “Yes, but” → “Yes, and”
🟣 Why too many internal teams talking to the customer = chaos
🟣 Lessons on cross-functional alignment between CS, Sales & Marketing
🟣 The role of AI in building advocacy workflows
🟣 What happens when CS owns more of the GTM strategy
🟣 Self-awareness and humility in executive leadership
🟣 The importance of psychological safety on your team

💡 Shoutouts & Mentions:

• Pavilion — a go-to CS/RevOps community, Anthony is active in- https://www.joinpavilion.com/

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W

Communication in customer success hinges not on what you say, but what your customer hears, as Kevin Metzger discovered when a casual comment about contractual obligations spiraled into a three-month recovery process with an enterprise client.

• Customer's SSL certificate expired causing application issues
• According to contracts, certificate renewal was customer's responsibility
• Kevin's off-the-cuff remark about contract terms damaged relationship
• Previously excellent customer service included clearing 150-issue backlog
• Proactive handling of day-zero security issue before incident
• Recovery process took months despite initial good relationship
• Understanding perception versus intention is critical in communication
• Consistent actions to rebuild trust more important than being right
• Later developed honest communication about miscommunication patterns
• Relationship eventually strengthened, leading to renewal of eight-figure contract
• Future of communication increasingly involves emotional intelligence as AI handles factual elements
• Different cultural contexts require additional communication awareness

📢 Guest Spotlight:

• Kevin Metzger — Customer Success Leader with 20+ years of experience, known as “The AI Assistant Guy” https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinmetzger/
  
  
  
• Host of the Customer Success Playbook podcast
  • Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-customer-success-playbook/id1691760422
  • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7pPPFBQZrv3HPrA75FQk2h?si=4f42fed2355c486a
    
    
    

🟣 Tools & Technologies Discussed:

• ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini — AI tools referenced for communication and content strategy
  • https://chatgpt.com/
  • claude.ai
  • gemini.google.com
    
    
    
• Notebook LM — Used for synthesizing information, content planning, and structuring timelines or papers
  • https://notebooklm.google/
    
    
    
• SalesApe.ai — AI-powered SDR tool that qualifies leads via email communication
  • https://www.salesape.ai/
    
    
    
• Sesame.com — Voice AI tool used for realistic spoken conversation with AI agents (Miles and Maya)
  • https://app.sesame.com/
    
    

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W

Sri Ganesan shares how bringing intensity and professionalism to implementation projects can dramatically improve customer partnerships and outcomes. The RocketLane CEO details specific strategies for setting expectations, improving communication, and catching issues before they become dealbreakers.

• Intensity means the ball is always in your court - never waiting on customers without following up
• Catch problems early through milestone-based CSAT surveys to identify even "three-star" experiences
• Escalate partnerships quickly when things go off track - it's better you escalate than the customer escalates
• Show professionalism by starting meetings on time, publishing clear agendas, and sending prompt follow-ups
• Set clear escalation paths during kickoff for both sides to maintain momentum
• Be prescriptive and challenge customer assumptions when your experience suggests better approaches
• Turn your implementation team into consultants who understand the domain, not just your product
• Align implementation decisions with executive stakeholders' organizational goals

📢 Guest Spotlight:
Sri Ganesan is the co-founder and CEO of Rocketlane, a modern PSA (Professional Services Automation) platform purpose-built for customer onboarding and service delivery. https://www.linkedin.com/in/srikrishnang/

Connect with Sri:
📧 Email: sri@rocketlane.com
🔗 LinkedIn: Sri Krishnan Ganesan
🐦X: @SriKrishnanG
🌐 Website: rocketlane.com

📚 Book Shoutouts:

• Leadership and Self-Deception – The Arbinger Institute: https://amzn.to/4mdVyeD
  
  
  

Made to Stick – Chip & Dan Heath: https://amzn.to/4kZlCt0

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W

Aaron Hatton, digital CS program builder at PV Case, shares how parent-child account relationships in data infrastructure nearly derailed a customer success platform rollout. His experience reveals the critical importance of cross-functional collaboration when establishing digital customer success programs and the challenges of defining who your customer truly is.

• Working with complex data structures where the entity paying for software differs from the entity using it
• Importance of involving RevOps, sales, and other stakeholders early in system implementations
• Creating governance processes for in-app messaging through cross-functional committees
• Redefining fundamental concepts like "who is a customer" when legal and CS definitions differ
• Finding unexpected wins through experimentation, like sending webinar invites at unconventional times
• Building digital CS programs that can scale requires proper foundational data structure
• Balancing future-proofing with the need to launch and iterate
• Implementing change management internally using the same best practices we recommend to customers
• Creating cross-functional relationships to ensure alignment across teams
• Recognizing when to ask basic questions that might seem obvious but are crucial to success

Connect with Aaron on LinkedIn or in the Digital CS Community to continue the conversation and share experiences.

🎙️ Guest
Aaron Hatton – Digital Customer Success Program Manager at PVCase. https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronhatton/

Books and Communities Mentioned
🟣 Digital Customer Success: Why the Next Frontier of CS is Digital and How You Can Leverage it to Drive Durable Growth by Nick Mehta- https://amzn.to/4o6kPt0

🟣 Digital CS Connect Community – https://airtable.com/appLGhZyujOoYp8BQ/shr4ixoZmB8hBoLbM

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W

Camela Thompson, Head of Marketing at RevOps Co-op and co-host of the RevOps AF podcast, shares how a major analytics implementation nearly collapsed when the focus shifted from customer value to delivery timelines.

• Different definitions of attribution lead to misalignment in go-to-market analytics implementations
• Standard onboarding metrics often focus on internal KPIs rather than achieving customer objectives
• Alignment between marketing, sales, and other departments is crucial for analytics implementation success
• True value comes from adapting to customer needs rather than standardizing implementations
• The human element often derails data projects - even with solid analytics, decisions are influenced by feelings
• Cross-functional collaboration is essential but challenging when different teams have competing metrics
• Documentation of data definitions and governance prevents misalignment between departments
• Soft skills like communication and empathy are as critical as technical skills in operations roles

🎙️ Guest:

• Camela Thompson – Head of Marketing at RevOps Co-op and Co-host of the RevOps AF podcast https://www.linkedin.com/in/camela-thompson/

🏢 Communities:

• RevOps Co-op –https://www.revopscoop.com/

📚 Books & Frameworks:

• Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg – https://amzn.to/4lN1CdJ
• Mindset by Dr. Carol Dweck – https://amzn.to/4kxBPVK

🎧 Podcasts:

RevOps AF – Co-hosted by Camela, https://www.revopscoop.com/learn/podcast

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W

Data access is the fuel for customer experience initiatives and was a three-year battle at Cisco, requiring persistent effort to overcome departmental silos. Andrew Carruthers shares insights from his 17 years at Cisco, where he led digital CX strategy during their transition from hardware to software.

• Lack of corporate mandate for the CS function created alignment challenges
• Getting access to customer data took three years due to departmental silos
• The most effective approach was focusing on business metrics rather than satisfaction scores
• Low renewal rates were solved by simply notifying customers about contract expirations
• Creating a separate CRM system was a mistake that created additional silos
• Customer experience should be positioned as a growth engine, not just satisfaction
• Adoption is critical to prevent products from being cut during tech stack consolidations
• With Gen AI, they expanded localization to reach new markets like Arabic-speaking customers
• Consistency in experience matters more than occasional "surprise and delight" moments
• Experience is often the primary reason customers leave, not product functionality

Follow Andrew Carothers: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-carothers/

Shoutouts:

Digital Hesitation by JB Wood & Thomas Lah (TSIA) – Book recommendation by Andrew; outlines how to operationalize digital customer experience

Digital Customer Success Podcast — https://digitalcustomersuccess.com/

CX Passport Podcast –https://www.cxpassport.com/

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W

Sally from Customer Obsessing Consulting shares insights on why CS technology implementations fail despite good intentions and how teams can better prepare for new tools.

• Every tech company uses between 57-110 tools, creating significant tech sprawl challenges
• Project management capabilities are crucial but undervalued skills for CSMs handling customer journeys
• Many organizations purchase tools without proper data readiness or team alignment
• Implementation timelines and resource requirements are often underestimated during the buying process
• Account hierarchy inconsistencies between CRM, CS platforms, and billing systems create major integration problems
• Health scores can be misleading when definitions aren't aligned across teams
• AI tools like ChatGPT can help CSMs work more efficiently with existing systems before investing in new platforms
• CSPs should participate in defining use cases and personas before implementation begins
• Involving individual contributors in tool selection creates better buy-in and practical solutions
• Examining capabilities of existing tools often reveals untapped potential that solves immediate problems

Start with the tools you already have and fully understand their capabilities before purchasing new solutions. Involve your team in the process, and only invest in new technology when you're actually ready for implementation.

Follow Sally on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallystoewe/

Shoutouts:

https://www.marijaskobepilley.com/podcast

https://www.masterclass.com/

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W

Customer satisfaction doesn't guarantee retention, and challenging conversations are often essential for genuine success. Strategic CSM from Outreach.io, Alex Glick shares his experiences losing an enterprise account just months into a role and how it reshaped his entire approach to customer success.

• Happy customers still churn when they don't see ROI, while frustrated customers might renew if they recognize business value
• Success plans are only valuable when continuously referenced and aligned with business outcomes
• Complacency is dangerous especially with enterprise accounts – there is no "ramp time" luxury
• Cross-functional relationships and internal political capital critically impact your ability to advocate for customers
• Adoption metrics alone don't drive renewals – they must connect to business outcomes executives care about
• Building a network of mentors and professional relationships is crucial for career growth in customer success
• Challenging leadership assumptions when necessary establishes you as the true voice of the customer

Follow Alex on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-glick/

🌐 Website
https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/

📰 Subscribe to the JDTT Newsletter –
Get raw insights, no-fluff frameworks, and tech touch tactics straight to your inbox: https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/jdttnewsletter
🎙️ Be a Guest on the Podcast
Have a CS horror story or digital-first strategy worth sharing? Submit to be a guest:https://www.joedoestechtouch.com/podcast

🔗 Connect with Joe on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephdigrande

📺 Watch Full Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaH58ojbaWym4ej_PedQ4Fw

_______________________________

Tools:

Logitech Creators Blue Yeti USB Microphone: https://amzn.to/4nHOFDN

Logitech Brio 4K Webcam: https://amzn.to/3GtKsmx

Sony WH-1000XM4 Noise Cancelling Wireless Headphones: https://amzn.to/44Q0xv4

Apple 2024 MacBook Pro Laptop: https://amzn.to/4lH6u3W