9-9-6. A term to describe the work culture of working 9AM - 9PM six days a week. This term is most often associated with those founders, companies, and their employees that work in generational software opportunities - such as we see right now with AI Software.

Dave and Ray discuss 9-9-6 from multiple angles in today's episode including:

• What 9-9-6 is
• Where did it originate
• Why is it trending
• The importance of Winning in the early stage of a new software era
• Geoffrey Moore's segmentation of new enterprise software markets (Gorillas, Chimps and Monkeys)
• Historic examples of those companies that became category leader
• Why the grind is not the point - Winning is
• Why the choice of entering a 9-9-6 environment makes choosing the company even more important

If you are currently in an early-stage AI-Native software company or considering making the move - this episode is a must listen!

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The Forward-Deployed Engineer (FDE) represents a fundamental reimagining of the technical role in high-stakes enterprise environments. At its core, an FDE is a software engineer embedded directly with customers to solve their most complex—and often ambiguous—problems.

Palantir is widely credited as the originator and early adopter of the FDE model, initially referring to these engineers as “Deltas.” In this episode, Dave “CAC” Kellogg and Ray “Growth” Rike explore multiple dimensions of the Forward-Deployed Engineer role, including:

• The origin of the FDE
• How the military influenced the term
• Whether the FDE belongs in a technology-enabled services company or a software company
• How an FDE differs from a traditional technical services consultant
• Where FDE expenses should be allocated—COGS vs. OPEX
• How those allocation decisions impact key metrics
• The hiring trends shaping the future of the FDE

If you’re building an AI-native application or an agentic AI company with outcome-based pricing, this episode is packed with insights and ideas on why a Forward-Deployed Engineer could be your next—and most important—hire.

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Iconiq recently published its State of Software 2025: Rethinking the Playbook. Whenever a new industry benchmark report is published, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike try to quickly read, analyze and decide if the report should be discussed on an episode of the Metrics Brothers. The Iconiq State of Software 2025 is a solid industry report that includes several key findings that Dave and Ray discuss during this episode including:

• Ai-Native vs AI-Enabled vs non-AI segmentation
• Growth's impact on Enterprise Value to Revenue multiples
• Revenue growth trends by company size
• Net Revenue Retention Benchmarks
• CAC Payback Period Benchmarks
• Adoption vs Engagement vs Outcomes for AI software companies
• Funnel Conversion metrics for AI vs non-AI companies

If you are interested in how the top tier, maybe I should say top quartile of SaaS companies are performing, in context of SaaS companies leveraging AI, those not leveraging AI and AI-Native software companies - this episode has something for everyone!

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The Bessemer Venture Partners Cloud 100 Benchmarks Report 2025 provides a snapshot into the top 100 PRIVATE SaaS/Cloud/AI companies. This year's report is full of new insights and trends that highlight how AI is impacting the software industry as we know it. Some of the key points in the report that our hosts Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss during today's episode include:

• The Cloud 100 $1,117 billion in aggregate value - a 36% increase from $820 billion in 2024
• The top 10 companies account for $598 billion of the aggregate value - 54% of entire list versus 46% last year
• OpenAI valued at $300 billion exceeds the combined value of last year’s top 10
• AI companies dominate this year’s list, comprising $464 billion in value - last year AI company total valuation was $176B (21%)
• The average Cloud 100 company reached the $100M (Centaur) milestone in just 7.5 years - AI companies only 5.7 years

The story on the Cloud 100 valuation multiples provide an interesting story on how valuation and growth are not necessarily trending in the same direction:

• The average Cloud 100 revenue multiple was 20x fell for third straight and down from 34X (41%) since 2021

If you are interested in how the SaaS and Cloud industry is evolving - by the number, and how AI-Native software companies are changing the benchmarks this episode is a MUST listen!

Bessemer Cloud 100 Benchmark 2025 Report is available by clicking here

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Positive Business Outlook or Work-Life Balance - which is more important? The "Grindscore" metric combines the two to determine the attractiveness of a company for employees.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the metric from many different angles including:

• The origin of the Grindscore metric
• Positive Business Outlook (PBO) + Work-Life Balance (WLB)
• Sample of Private and Public Company Grindscores
• Why a high PBO and high WLB scores the same as a low PBO and an average WLB (flaws of the metric)

This episode covers a metric that most software companies are not using - and the conversation may put a light on some of the reasons why?!

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Bessemer Venture Partners recently released their State of AI 2025 Report, a space exploration manual for the AI software era. With AI now the dominant software force, let's dive into what Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike took away from the report in today's episode:

• The key differences in performance metrics between AI Supernovas and Shooting Stars
• Why Vertical AI companies have a unique opportunity to outperform horizontal AI companies in the early days
• The importance of building a structured Proof of Concept or Pilot program into your customer acquisition process
• The top 5 predictions for the AI market in 2026
• Top 10 takeaways for Native-AI founders and executive leaders

The top five predictions from the report for AI in 2026 include:

1. The browser will emerge as a dominant interface for agentic AI
2. 2026 will be the year of generative video
3. Evaluations and data lineage will become a critical catalyst for AI product development
4. A new AI-native social media giant could emerge
5. The incumbents strike back as AI M&A heats up

For the best listening experience, open the Bessemer Venture Partners State of AI 2025 report and follow along as Dave and Ray discuss the highlights.

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Aventis Advisors recently published a report on AI Valuations which covered the number of investments, size of those investments, median valuations and multiples on AI investments over a 15 year period from 2010 through first half of 2025!

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss some of the highlights including:

• AI industry categories included
• Number of financing rounds (2010 - 1H2025)
• Total Capital Raised (2010 - 1H2025)
• Median sizes by round (2010 - 1H2025)
• Valuations (2010 - 1H2025)
• Valuation multiples (2010 - 1H2025)
• Large Language Model valuations vs AI Coding Assistant Valuations
• Summary of the AI funding environment

You can follow along to Dave and Ray's conversation by clicking the below link to the report

Aventis AI Valuation Multiples Report

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AI-Native products and AI products integrated into a traditional SaaS platform have different Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) than a SaaS platform, which directly impacts Gross Margin. With over 80% of SaaS companies already integrating AI products into their platform, the Metrics Brothers knew it was time to discuss the Gross Margin and Cost of Goods Sold considerations of deploying an AI product:

Topics that CAC and Growth discuss during this episode includes:

• Gross Margin benchmarks for AI products versus SaaS platforms
• Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) for SaaS products
• Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) for AI products
• General Rules for COGS vs OPEX categorization
• Increasing AI product Gross Margins with scale
• The cascading reality of AI investments and build-outs

If you are considering investing capital and resources into an AI product, be it in an AI-Native product or as an add-on to a legacy SaaS platform, this conversation between CAC and Growth provides multiple insights and considerations for many Cost of Goods Sold components for AI products vis-à-vis traditional SaaS products.

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