In this episode of PodBiz, recorded before his unexpected passing last week, Todd Cochran, Founder & CEO of Blubrry Podcasting, joined Norma Jean Belenky to share his perspective on the realities of monetization, the future of the industry, and why creators must first serve their audiences.

As James Cridland wrote in an obituary published in Podnews, “Todd Cochrane was a fierce proponent of open RSS and building your podcast on your own website… Ever willing to help progress the industry, Todd was always interested to learn and make friends with anyone in podcasting.” His words in this conversation are a reminder of just how much one person can shape an industry.

As he put it:

• Why podcasters should build community before chasing ads
• The download thresholds that really matter to advertisers (10K–50K)
• Subscription models and listener support as alternative revenue streams
• Why transparency and vulnerability create lasting trust
• How independent voices and audio-first strategies continue to shape the industry

Todd Cochran was the Founder & CEO of Blubrry Podcasting, a pioneer in hosting and monetization. A Navy veteran, author of one of the first books on podcasting, and longtime host of Geek News Central, Todd helped establish podcasting as a professional medium. His leadership empowered countless independent podcasters to find their voice, their audience, and their sustainability.

We’re deeply grateful to have recorded this conversation with Todd, and we honor his legacy in podcasting.

01:26 – Monetization Realities | Why most creators shouldn’t chase ads first

04:22 – The Numbers That Matter | When agencies start paying attention

07:32 – Beyond Ads | Subscriptions and listener support

10:16 – Building Trust | Transparency, vulnerability, and audience connection

13:46 – Early Days | Hosting, GoDaddy, and growing the ecosystem

19:11 – Hitting Record | Why starting is the hardest—and most important—step

24:27 – Practical Advice | “Record for your audience. Write for Google.”

32:39 – From Niche to Mainstream | The growth of podcasting at scale

36:16 – Future of Revenue | Ads, acquisitions, and industry shifts

37:14 – Why Audio-First Still Wins | Todd’s advice for new podcasters

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dan Misener, co-founder of Bumper, about why the download has lost its value as the industry’s currency and what new measures should define growth. Dan shares how brands like Ford and Shopify are rethinking ROI, what top-of-funnel really means for branded podcasts, and why audience clarity is the key to sustainable strategy.

As he puts it:

• The limits of downloads as a measure of success
• Verified listeners, time spent, and playback as stronger metrics
• Why branded podcasts often win on top-of-funnel strategy
• What Bumper has learned from working with companies like Ford and Shopify
• How creators and publishers should define growth before chasing it

Dan Misener is the co-founder of Bumper, a podcast growth and strategy company. Previously head of audience development at Pacific Content, Dan has worked with brands including Ford, Shopify, Slack, and Dell on award-winning shows. With a background in public broadcasting at CBC, he has become one of podcasting’s most influential voices on measurement, growth, and the evolving value of audio.

Connect with Dan on LinkedIn.

Learn more at wearebumper.com.

01:15 – Where’s the Money? | How brands monetize podcasts directly and indirectly

04:15 – Top of Funnel | What Shopify taught Dan about brand shows

07:33 – Brand ROI | What Ford and the Met want from podcasting

12:23 – The Death of the Download | Why it’s no longer the right yardstick

16:47 – Verified Listeners & Playback | Measuring people, not impressions

20:26 – Audience Clarity | Why knowing who you serve drives growth

24:23 – The Hidden Work | Why good podcasting looks effortless but isn’t

27:54 – Redefining Growth | Asking the right questions before you scale

28:46 – Looking Ahead | A new era of measurement and sustainability

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

At what point does a podcast become a business that advertisers want to invest in?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan sit down with Heather Osgood, founder of True Native Media and host of The Podcast Advertising Playbook, to talk about what really matters in podcast monetization today.

Heather shares nearly a decade of experience connecting podcasters and advertisers, from the realities of download thresholds to how long it takes to close a brand deal, to why host-read ads remain central even as programmatic grows.

As she puts it:

• Why podcasters need to start thinking of themselves as content creators across platforms
• The ongoing strength of host-read ads and where programmatic fits in
• What 5K, 25K, and 100K monthly downloads really mean in ad sales
• How long it can actually take to secure brand dollars (hint: it’s not overnight)
• Why technology and easier buying paths are the next frontier for podcast ads

Heather Osgood is the founder of True Native Media, a podcast representation agency specializing in podcast advertising. With a background in radio sales and a love for podcasting, Heather has become an influential voice in the space. She’s a frequent speaker at events like Podcast Movement and PodFest, and she hosts the podcast, The Podcast Advertising Playbook, where she educates creators and advertisers alike on how to make podcast ads work. When she’s not connecting brands and shows, she’s hiking or spending time with her family at the beach.

Connect with Heather on LinkedIn.

Learn more at truenativemedia.com.

01:29 – Where’s the Money? | Why advertising still drives podcast revenue

03:21 – Podcasters or Content Creators? | Shifting how the industry thinks about influence

04:58 – Host-Read vs. Programmatic | What listeners and advertisers actually prefer

07:55 – Starting True Native Media | Heather’s journey from radio to podcast ad sales

14:13 – Brand Dollars Take Time | Why long sales cycles are part of the process

19:07 – Download Thresholds | 5K, 25–50K, and 100K monthly downloads explained

21:33 – Lessons Learned | Why Heather wishes she’d built tech sooner

23:41 – Looking Ahead | Podcasters as influencers and the next stage for ad buys

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.