Maggie Dobbs is a trained city planner (Rutgers) who spent a decade writing comprehensive plans across Montgomery County before stepping into her current role as Borough Manager of Narberth, Pennsylvania, a half-square-mile community tucked inside Lower Merion Township just outside of Philadelphia. She arrived after a period of leadership turnover. What she found was not a small job. It was a dense one.

Host Brandon Ford and co-host Nancy Hess have a wide ranging conversation with Maggie that moves through the real experience of borough management: the math of running a full municipal government — police, public works, library, eleven miles of road — with fifteen people and a fraction of a township’s budget; the intimacy that makes boroughs special and the same intimacy that makes criticism land close to the heart; and the reality that wearing every hat in the building demands more knowledge, not less, than specializing in a larger organization.

Maggie is candid about walking into a community that had cycled through five managers in four years, what it took to steady that ship, and why her focus is on building standard operating procedures so the day-to-day can run itself. Along the way, the crew explores Narberth’s housing story — how a historically working-class rail town became the highest median sales price in Montgomery County — and what that shift means for a community once referred to as “Mayberry,” still sorting out who it is.

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Five Realities Before You Take the Seat

1. Your job will crowd out your job. Protect space for strategic work.
2. SOPs are not paperwork. They are oxygen.
3. Fill your blind spots early. Pride is expensive.
4. Proactive information reduces political friction.
5. Borough leadership is not smaller. It’s closer.

0:00 – Introducing Maggie and Narberth

1:18 – The “donut hole” geography inside Lower Merion

2:09 – Maggie’s path: NJ Dept. of Agriculture → Rutgers → Planning

3:30 – Montgomery County Planning Commission & contract planning model

5:49 – Writing four comprehensive plans; interviewing...

There is a polite fiction in local government that serving “at the pleasure of the governing body” rests securely on mutual trust. Often it does. Increasingly, it can feel more fragile.

In today’s political climate, the employment relationship between elected officials and their chief administrative officer deserves a closer examination. What protections actually exist? Who advocates for the manager when circumstances shift?

In this episode of Generation on the Rise, Eden Ratliff and Dave Pribulka sit down with Brad Gotshall to explore what it means to become, in his words, a “free agent.” They examine contracts and severance, and they also confront questions of reputation, professional identity, and the personal weight of transitions that can be political, strategic, or simply inevitable.

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1. 00:00 – Cold open, book banter, introductions
2. 04:30 – Brad’s background: elected official at 17 to professional manager
3. 09:30 – Transition to Warren County and “free agency”
4. 11:30 – Protecting yourself as a manager: personal and professional buckets
5. 13:30 – Contract negotiations: learning the hard way
6. 16:00 – Do managers need representation?
7. 19:00 – The loneliness of severance negotiations
8. 22:00 – Lower Paxton: no contract, negotiated exit
9. 26:00 – Recruiter’s role in negotiations
10. 31:00 – Severance pushback and board dynamics
11. 37:00 – Creative contract structures (Rehoboth example)
12. 39:30 – Should managers use agents?
13. 41:30 – Legal review vs. negotiation support
14. 43:00 – Preserving reputation under NDAs
15. 45:30 – Building a personal brand before crisis hits
16. 48:00 – No-fault divorce vs. political dismissal
17. 50:00 – Wrap-up and Part Two teaser

Eden and Dave are joined by guest Jeffrey Stonehill, Borough Manager of Chambersburg Pennsylvania. They begin with an examination of how crises today differ from those Jeffrey encountered when he began in the field. Although they traverse the doom and gloom of dealing with crisis in the profession, they return to the core reasons they remain in the field.

Contrasting generational perspectives and recognition of the vulnerability that comes with commitment and transitions make this episode a memorable one.

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Hot Takes:

🔥Crisis has always been part of the job. The pressure isn’t new — the speed is.

🔥Not every issue deserves full emotional escalation.

🔥Fire Suppression ≠ Fire Prevention. Be proactive.

🔥 The communities you serve will continue without you—and that's okay.

🔥Leaving a community requires a grieving process, even when it's your choice to leave.

🔥The work is meaningful. Despite the pressure, leaders would not trade the experience.

Timestamps

00:00 - Cold open and greetings

03:47 - Welcome and introduction to Generation on the Rise

04:42 - Introducing first-time guest Jeffrey Stonehill

06:32 - Jeffrey’s career journey: From SUNY grad to 40-year manager

08:15 - The “crisis as normal” phenomenon in local government

11:45 - Why municipalities attract constant crisis

15:20 - The evolution of pressure: Then vs. now

19:30 - Harrisburg bankruptcy and advisory board experience

24:10 - The psychological toll of perpetual emergency management

28:45 - Learning to disconnect (or trying to)

33:20 - The loneliness of municipal management

37:50 - Why managers struggle to share burdens

42:15 - Transitioning between communities: The Disney tradition

45:40 - The grieving process when you leave a community

49:18 - Taking care of yourself and your family

50:05 - Despite everything: Why we love this profession

52:03 - Closing thoughts and next week’s preview

Hey listeners, if you like video with your podcast, check out this episode on Spotify with the video feed included. Don't forget to hit the follow button. And subscribe to MuniSQuare where you will find more on the Pioneering Change Community channel.

"We are all one elected official away from a hostile work environment.” - Dave

“Yeah, but if it gets that bad, why would you stay?" - Eden

Today on Generation on the Rise, what starts as tactical shop talk evolves into a revealing examination of professional isolation, with Dave pushing hard on systemic advocacy gaps while Eden counters with self-reliance pragmatism. By the end, they’re debating whether the profession’s recruitment crisis stems from lack of awareness or legitimate wariness about the job’s inherent instability.

“Labor relations are high risk, high reward. When it goes bad, it goes bad fast.” - Brandon

1. Generational dynamics within unions have shifted bargaining leverage.
2. Don’t wait until negotiation year to build trust.
3. Personnel management is on-the-job training, no matter your preparation.
4. Managers lack advocacy structures..

In this kickoff-to-2026 episode of Generation on the Rise, hosts Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, and Eden Ratliff tackle the question: what is the real role of a municipal manager in forming local government policy?

Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess (Publisher of MuniSquare) and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To subscribe to this feed, receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a great listen for anyone interested in the work of local government or just wants to understand how it really works. Be sure to leave your comments and questions for the crew to tackle in a future episode.

“Our job is to inform the process, respect the outcome, and then deliver with enthusiasm.” - Eden

“We took ‘leaf blower ban’ as a goal and did what staff does—we turned it into options, wrote the ordinance, and recommended a seasonal ban. The board said, ‘Thanks, but we want a full ban.’ And that’s democracy.” - Brandon

“Sometimes the textbook says, ‘The board sets policy, the manager administers.’ The real work is everything in between—the translation, the conflict, the opportunity costs.” - Dave

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 – New Year banter & Y2K

03:30 – First-week-back routines & “Purge Day”

06:30 – Reorganization meetings as the “real” New Year

09:00 – Setting up the topic: managers and policy formation

10:00 – Textbook council–manager model vs reality

12:00 – How Eden reads and frames board policy priorities

13:30 – Who really sets the agenda? Chair vs manager

14:30 – Is capital equipment a policy question?

16:00 – Municipal vs nonprofit vs corporate boards

17:30 – Disagreeing with the board and processing it at home

21:00 – Culture, roles, and “no big emotions” about policy

24:00 – Translating decisions up and down the organization

28:00 – “Negotiation” vs expectations and culture

29:30 – When managers do and don’t make recommendations

33:00 – Budgets, tax policy, and whether a balanced budget is a recommendation

36:00 – Assistant manager perspective: one functional unit

38:00 – Preemption, home rule, and plastic-bag bans

44:00 – Inertia, backlash, and revisiting policy after it “marinates”

47:00 – What’s distinctive about the Generation on the Rise cohort?

48:00 – When operations are failing and the manager must force the policy conversation

49:00 – Closing reflections & takeaways

Summary: In this thought-provoking episode, Brandon, Dave, and Eden tackle the complex topic of workplace loyalty in local government. The hosts debate what loyalty means in practice, whether it’s connected to tenure, and how it differs from professionalism. The conversation takes an unexpected turn into residency requirements, sparking passionate disagreement about whether living in the community you serve impacts your work. As they wrap up 2024, the hosts announce exciting changes coming in 2025, including guest appearances.

Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess (Publisher of MuniSquare) and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To subscribe to this feed, receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Show Notes:

1. What does workplace loyalty mean in local government?
2. The connection (or disconnection) between loyalty and tenure
3. ICMA’s two-year standard and generational shifts in career mobility
4. Professionalism vs. loyalty: which matters more?
5. The heated residency debate: does living in your community change your recommendations?
6. Small town dynamics vs. larger municipalities
7. Looking ahead: Generation on the Rise adds guests in 2025!

Timestamps:

1. 00:00 - Cold open: ICMA’s two-year standard discussion
2. 01:00 - Holiday gift assembly war stories
3. 05:00 - Defining workplace loyalty in local government
4. 08:00 - The role of personal affinity in job selection
5. 11:00 - Measuring loyalty: what does it look like?
6. 15:00 - The two-year standard and its implications
7. 18:00 - Why managers move more frequently now
8. 22:00 - ICMA’s two-year standard revisited
9. 27:00 - Loyalty vs. professionalism in difficult decisions
10. 31:00 - The residency debate begins
11. 40:00 - Does living in your community affect recommendations?
12. 46:00 - Generational differences in mobility and commitment
13. 50:00 - Episode wrap-up and 2025 announcement

As the calendar year closes out, Eden Ratliff sits down with Brandon Ford and Dave Pribulka to talk about strategic planning in the real world: not as a glossy document, but as a working “rudder” for budget decisions, priorities, and day-to-day execution.

They dig into the tension between aspirational goals (the “why”) and cross-offable action steps (the “how”)—including how to avoid plans that sound inspiring but don’t translate into steps, owners, timelines, or resources.

Along the way, they compare planning approaches in large and small communities, debate when to use consultants vs. doing the work in-house, and talk honestly about what happens when boards turn over and want to toss the plan on the shelf.

Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

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00:00 - Welcome & Year-End Check-In

00:01 - Episode Introduction: Strategic Planning

00:02 - Brandon's Love/Hate Relationship with Strategic Planning

00:03 - The Chicken or Egg Debate: Aspirational vs. Practical

00:04 - Dave Introduces "Cross-Offable" Action Steps

00:05 - The Comp Plan vs. Strategic Plan Hierarchy Debate

00:07 - Eden's Cascade Model: How Plans Connect

00:08 - Lower Merion's Annual Priorities Workshop Process

00:11 - Strategic Planning for Small Communities

00:15 - Dave: Small Communities Need It MORE

00:17 - Brandon's Reality Check: Need vs. Resources

00:18 - In-House vs. Hiring Consultants

00:20 - Dave on Pros and Cons of Each Approach

00:22 - Eden's Charlottesville Story: Third-Party Facilitation

00:24 - Most Memorable Planning Experiences

00:26 - Eden's 112-Person Strategic Team: "Planning Is Messy"

00:28 - Strategic Plans Cannot Replace Policy Process

00:30 - The Big Question: What When Boards Throw Out Your Plan?

00:31 - Defining AMI and ALICE (Housing Affordability Context)

00:34 - Dave: Sometimes Things Just Change

00:35 - "Failing to Plan Is Planning to Fail" - True or False?

00:37 - Emergency Planning Discussion

00:38 - Dave's Key Insight: Strategic Plans Give Managers "Cover"

00:40 - Final Wisdom: Planning for Communities of All Sizes

00:41 - Closing & Where to Listen

In this episode of ‘Generation on the Rise’, the hosts Dave Pribulka, Eden Ratliff, and Brandon Ford “go there” to unpack the inherent biases present in local government, and how it can impact decision-making processes.

They explore how biases affect hiring practices and public policy formation, emphasizing the need for a culture of challenge and building perspective in leadership. The conversation also touches on the impact of confirmation bias and the necessity of engaging with voices from outside familiar turf to challenge the status quo.

Chapters

02:51 The Meaning Behind ‘Generation on the Rise’

12:06 Understanding Bias in Local Government

23:47 Bias in Hiring Processes and Practices

28:27 Navigating Education Choices in Suburban Life

29:41 Blind Reviews and Bias in Hiring

31:35 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives

33:17 Creating a Culture of Disagreement

35:01 Affinity Bias in Team Dynamics

37:47 The CAO and Assistant Relationship

42:54 Confirmation Bias in Municipal Management

54:58 The Impact of Experience on Management Bias

59:22 Bias in Public Policy Formation