S9 E3 — What is the good life? Is it a life marked by money and success and achievement? Or a life marked by love? Author and professor Kelly Kapic joins Amy Julia Becker to rethink our obsession with productivity and self-reliance. They explore:

• Why “independence” is not the ideal
• How love—not intelligence or achievement—defines our humanity
• How receiving our limits can lead to rest, belonging, and deeper joy

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00:00 Exploring Humanity's Limits and Gifts
04:30 The Distinction Between Limits and Brokenness
09:35 Redefining Human Value Beyond Achievement
12:16 The Role of Love in Defining Humanity
19:45 The Gift of Humble Dependence in Relationships
26:03 Recognizing and Cultivating Gifts
28:21 The Good Life: Beyond Material Success and Happiness
34:33 Embracing Limits within Work, Rest, and Love
39:16 Practices for Accepting Limits and Cultivating Love

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Books: You Were Never Meant to Do It All, You're Only Human, and Embodied Hope by Kelly Kapic
• Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman
• When Helping Hurts by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert
• Becoming Whole by by Brian Fikkert and Kelly Kapic
• World Happiness Report
• I Corinthians 13

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WATCH this conversation on YouTube: Amy Julia Becker on YouTube

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Kelly M. Kapic (PhD, King's College, University of London) is professor of theological studies at Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Georgia, where he has taught since 2001. He is a popular speaker and the award-winning author or editor of more than fifteen books, including the devotional You Were Never Meant to Do It All, The God Who Gives, and the Christianity Today Book Award winners You're Only Human and Embodied Hope: A Theological Meditation on Pain and Suffering. Kapic has been featured in Christianity Today and The Gospel Coalition and has worked on research teams funded by the John Templeton Foundation. He also contributes to the Journal of Spiritual Formation and Soul Care and various other journals. kellykapic.com

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Some people get paid to do what they love, but most don’t. How can we find meaning in everyday work that we don’t always love doing? How can we discover our purpose in life? Author Karen Swallow Prior and Amy Julia Becker explore:

• Why passion is not the same as calling
• How vocation centers on service and relationships, not just career
• Pursuing truth, goodness, and beauty in ordinary life
• How multiple callings unfold across a lifetime
• Wisdom for discerning and living into a deeper purpose

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New! Take the Next Step podcast: amyjuliabecker.com/step

00:00 Introduction

02:04 Exploring the Call to Creativity

05:39 The Myths of Passion and Work

08:55 Defining Calling and Vocation

12:32 The Relational Aspect of Calling

15:31 Pursuing Truth, Goodness, and Beauty

22:28 The Intersection of the True, the Good, and the Beautiful

26:04 The Good Life and Purpose

31:46 The Role of Suffering in Calling

36:55 Navigating New Callings and Responsibilities

40:44 Finding Meaning and Calling in Everyday Tasks

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful by Karen Swallow Prior

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WATCH this conversation on YouTube: Amy Julia Becker on YouTube

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Karen Swallow Prior, Ph.D. is the 2025-26 Karlson Scholar at Bethel Seminary. She is a popular writer and speaker, a contributing writer for The Dispatch, and a columnist for Religion News Service. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Vox, The Washington Post, Christianity Today, and many other places. Her most recent book is You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful (Brazos 2025).

CONNECT with Karen: karenswallowprior.com

• Facebook: Karen Swallow Prior
• Instagram: karenswallowprior
• X: @KSPrior
• Substack: @karenswallowprior
  
  

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What really makes life worth living? This season on Reimagining the Good Life, Amy Julia Becker dives into the ideas, assumptions, and cultural narratives that shape how we live. Upcoming conversations include:

• Karen Swallow Prior on calling
• Sharon Hodde Miller on self-forgetfulness
• Kelly Kapic on human limitations
• Leah Libresco Sargeant on the dignity of dependence

If you’re curious about culture, disability, family, and faith—and how big ideas can change everyday life—this season is for you.

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This is the very first episode of my new podcast, Take the Next Step, and I’m sharing it here so you won’t miss the launch. Be sure to follow Take the Next Step with Amy Julia Becker wherever you listen so you don’t miss future episodes. (New episodes of Reimagining the Good Life are coming in October!)

Follow the new podcast at: amyjuliabecker.com/step/

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Feeling overwhelmed by the challenges of disability? Katherine Wolf, author, advocate, and co-founder of Hope Heals, joins Amy Julia Becker to explore how families can reimagine disability, build connection, and celebrate life.

From the dinner table to the slow work of recovery, learn how to find delight in the story you have. Discover:

• How to experience joy in the process, not just the outcome
• Daily habits to cultivate gratitude and delight
• How to build a supportive, connected community
• Why purpose and contribution matter for every family

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Katherine’s books, resources, gatherings, and inter-ability communities: hopeheals.com.
• Luke 14

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Katherine Wolf is an author, advocate, and co-founder of Hope Heals. After she survived a near-fatal brainstem stroke at age 26, her family’s journey through disability has become a public witness that good and hard can co-exist in the same story. Through caregiving, storytelling, and lived theology, Katherine is inviting others into a vision of hope, interdependence, and embodied resilience. She and her husband Jay live in Atlanta with their two sons.

Website: www.hopeheals.com

Instagram: @hopeheals

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Take the Next Step is produced in collaboration with Hope Heals. Hope Heals creates sacred spaces of belonging and belovedness for families affected by disabilities to experience sustaining hope in the context of inclusive, intentional, inter-ability communities. Find out more about our resources, gatherings, and inter-ability communities at hopeheals.com. Follow us on Instagram @hopeheals.

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I’m so excited to share something new with you! My new show, Take the Next Step, is a podcast for families experiencing disability—filled with real talk, real tools, and real hope. Tune in over at Take the Next Step each week for conversations with parents, therapists, and advocates about how we can cultivate belonging and build a flourishing future for the entire family.

You can find the new show by searching "Take the Next Step with Amy Julia Becker" on your podcast app, or find it online at amyjuliabecker.com/step

And stay tuned - new episodes of Reimagining the Good Life coming in October.

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WATCH this conversation on YouTube: Amy Julia Becker on YouTube

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JOIN the conversation on Instagram: @amyjuliabecker

LISTEN to more episodes: amyjuliabecker.com/shows/

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Take the Next Step is produced in collaboration with Hope Heals. Hope Heals creates sacred spaces of belonging and belovedness for families affected by disabilities to experience sustaining hope in the context of inclusive, intentional, inter-ability communities. Find out more about our resources, gatherings, and inter-ability communities at hopeheals.com. Follow us on Instagram @hopeheals.

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When Heather Avis says she’s one of “the lucky few,” she means it. In this episode, we talk about growing up with our children with Down syndrome, what it means to delight in our kids, and how all of us can participate in shifting the narrative around disability toward love and belonging. Our conversation highlights her new children’s book, I Like You So Much, and focuses on:

• Proclaiming the worth of our children
• The role of children's books in shifting disability narratives
• Understanding identity
• Exploring mutuality in relationships
• The importance of spaces of belonging
• Delight and celebration in parenting

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• I Like You So Much by Heather Avis
• More of Heather’s books
• The Lucky Few podcast
• Small Talk by Amy Julia Becker
• Heather’s Substack
• Reimagining the Good Life Workshop
• Subscribe to Amy Julia’s Substack newsletter

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WATCH this conversation on YouTube by clicking here. READ the full transcript and access detailed show notes by clicking here or visiting amyjuliabecker.com/podcast.

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ABOUT:

Heather Avis is a New York Times bestselling author, public speaker, podcaster, and a Down syndrome advocate. She is the founder of and chief visionary officer at The Lucky Few, an advocacy organization dedicated to shouting worth, shifting narratives, and reimagining what it looks like when we create spaces of belonging. She lives in Southern California with her husband Josh and three kids, Macyn, Truly, and August and two Goldendoodles, Maeby and George Michael.

Website: https://www.heatheravis.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theluckyfewofficial/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheLuckyFewOfficial/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC99_OFh29y9lVqZyHY2Xztw

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lucky-few/id1349646917

New Book, I Like You So Much: https://www.amazon.com/Like-You-So-Much-Celebrating/dp/0310166594/

Photo Credit: © Camilynne Photography

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Ambition is the air we breathe—but what is it costing us? In this episode, Amy Julia Becker and theologian Miroslav Volf discuss his latest book, The Cost of Ambition. They unpack the hidden damage of a culture obsessed with competition and invite us to imagine a new way of being, for ourselves and our society, rooted not in achievement, but in love, mutuality, and genuine abundance. They explore:

• Striving for superiority in American culture
• The dark side of competition
• Longing for what we have
• Striving for excellence vs. striving for superiority
• The illusion of individual achievement
• Practices for embracing love and generosity
• Reimagining human relationships beyond superiority

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better Than Others Makes Us Worse by Miroslav Volf
• Abundance by Ezra Klein
• The Sabbath by Abraham Heschel
• Luke 18:9-14, Philippians 2, 1 Corinthians 12:21-26, Mark 10:35-45
• The Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55)
• Works of Love by Søren Kierkegaard
• Subscribe to Amy Julia's newsletter

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WATCH this conversation on YouTube by clicking here. READ the full transcript and access detailed show notes by clicking here or visiting amyjuliabecker.com/podcast.

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ABOUT:

Miroslav Volf (DrTheol, University of Tübingen) is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and founding director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture in New Haven, Connecticut. He has written or edited more than two dozen books, including the New York Times bestseller Life Worth Living, A Public Faith, Public Faith in Action, and Exclusion and Embrace (winner of the Grawemeyer Award in Religion and selected as among the 100 best religious books of the 20th century by Christianity Today). Educated in his native Croatia, the United States, and Germany, Volf regularly lectures around the world. CONNECT with Miroslav Volf on X at @miroslavvolf.

Photo Credit: © Christopher Capozziello

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What if the perfect family doesn’t exist—and never was supposed to? Theologian Emily McGowin, PhD, joins Amy Julia Becker to explore family life in America and what the Bible really says (and doesn’t say) about family life. They discuss:

• the idealized version of the American family
• the misconceptions surrounding a biblical blueprint for family
• creating a home centered on love, not expectations
• apprenticing ourselves to love through daily household practices

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Households of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God by Emily Hunter McGowin, PhD
• Amy Julia's episode with Matthew Mooney about families, disability, suffering, and "the good life'
• Small Talk: Learning from my Children about What Matters Most by Amy Julia Becker

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WATCH this conversation on YouTube by clicking here. READ the full transcript and access detailed show notes by clicking here or visiting amyjuliabecker.com/podcast.

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ABOUT:

Emily Hunter McGowin (PhD, University of Dayton) is associate professor of theology at Wheaton College. She is the author of Quivering Families and Christmas, and coeditor of God and Wonder. Her articles have appeared in Christianity Today and The Week. She is a priest and canon theologian in the Anglican diocese of Churches for the Sake of Others. She and her husband, Ron, also a priest, live in Chicagoland with their three children. Follow her on Twitter: @EmilyMcgowin and visit her website at: emilymcgowin.com.

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Let’s stay in touch. Subscribe to my newsletter to receive weekly reflections that challenge assumptions about the good life, proclaim the inherent belovedness of every human being, and envision a world of belonging where everyone matters.

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Thanks for listening!