What’s the real ROI of a book?

That’s the question Peter Winick poses to Chief Imaginative Officer of Emerson Consulting, author of "The Expert's Edge: Become the Go-To Authority People Turn to Every Time" and publishing expert Ken Lizotte, in this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership.

Ken has helped more than 350 thought leaders turn their ideas into published works—books, blogs, and articles that position them as authorities in their fields. He’s seen it all: the excitement of a new book idea, the confusion around agents and publishers, and the reality that the book itself isn’t the profit center—it’s the door opener.

Ken breaks down the evolving world of publishing—traditional, hybrid, and self-publishing—and reveals how authors can choose the right path based on their business goals. He and Peter cut through the myths about literary agents, unpack how the publishing game really works, and share why alignment between author and publisher is so rare (and so essential).

More importantly, Ken makes it clear that a book’s success isn’t measured in units sold—it’s in how well it builds credibility, opens doors to speaking gigs, attracts clients, and establishes long-term brand authority. Whether you’re dreaming about your first book or looking to turn ideas into influence, this conversation will show you how to treat your book as a strategic asset, not just a creative project.

Three Key Takeaways:

• A Book’s True ROI Isn’t in Sales—It’s in Strategy.
The financial return on a nonfiction book rarely comes from copies sold. Instead, it comes from what the book enables: paid speaking gigs, consulting work, and business growth. A book is a credibility tool, not a revenue product.

• Authors Must Choose the Right Publishing “Game.”
Traditional publishing, hybrid, and self-publishing each serve different goals. Ken stresses that authors need to decide early whether they’re playing the publisher’s game (focused on sales volume) or their own game (using the book as a business and thought leadership tool).

• A Great Book Builds Authority, Not Just Audience.
The most successful thought leaders use their books to define expertise, attract the right clients, and create long-term influence. The focus shouldn’t be on pleasing everyone—it’s about reaching the specific audience where your ideas have the greatest impact.

If you’re fired up by Ken Lizotte’s strategies for making a book a business-building tool, then you’ll definitely want to hear Lucinda Halpern’s episode too. In it, Lucinda debunks the myths that trap many thought leaders—like thinking an agent guarantees a book deal, that publishers will handle all marketing, or that you need huge social media numbers to get published. You’ll walk away with clearer insight into publishing timelines, how to build a platform that matters, and how to make a book a lead-generation engine, not just a creative side project.

Tune in and get sharper on how to align your ideas, your reach, and your publishing strategy—all toward real growth.

What makes a podcast truly powerful — and worth your time?

In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Peter Winick sits down with Ryan Estes, co-founder of Wildcast and Kitcaster, to unpack what separates a great podcast guest — and host — from the rest. Ryan’s work connects CEOs, founders, and thought leaders to the right audiences through strategic podcast placement. His mission: to turn conversations into meaningful distribution.

Ryan explains why founder-led marketing outperforms brand marketing — by as much as 80%. He reveals how showing up authentically on podcasts isn’t just about exposure; it’s about building credibility, creating demand, and sparking conversations that open doors to your ideal clients.

Together, Peter and Ryan explore what makes a podcast worth appearing on. It’s not about chasing the biggest show or the biggest name — it’s about relevance. For many business leaders, the right niche podcast might be the only place where all their potential buyers are listening. Ryan walks through how to identify the right shows for your goals, the importance of energy and chemistry in a podcast conversation, and how to develop the skills — from delivery to lighting — that make you a guest worth remembering.

They also discuss the “guest hygiene” problem: why so many smart leaders fail to prepare properly, neglect to promote their episodes, or treat podcasts like disposable media hits. Ryan argues that building a personal distribution network — your own voice, audience, and presence — is an investment that carries over to every project, every company, and every new venture.

If you’ve been thinking about launching a podcast, or becoming a
sought-after guest, this episode is your roadmap to doing it right — and doing it with purpose.

Three Key Takeaways:

• Founder-led marketing drives results. When leaders speak directly to audiences through podcasts, their message builds far more trust and engagement than traditional brand marketing.

• Relevance beats reach. The best podcasts for business growth aren’t always the biggest — they’re the ones where your ideal buyers actually listen and engage.

• Consistency builds credibility. Thought leaders who prepare well,
promote their episodes, and keep showing up authentically develop a personal brand that outlasts any single company or project.

If this conversation inspired you to think differently about using
your voice and platform, take the next step by listening to our
episode with Srinivas Rao. He dives deep into how creativity,
curiosity, and personal expression fuel powerful thought leadership. Discover how to build an audience that connects with your ideas — not just your brand.

Listen here.

What if the world didn’t reward the best ideas — but the best-packaged ones?

That’s the question at the heart of this conversation between Bill Sherman and Gavin McMahon, CEO of fassforward and author of Story Business. Once an engineer designing submarines, Gavin discovered that technical brilliance alone doesn’t move ideas forward — storytelling does. Now, he helps leaders use story as a tool for influence, clarity, and change.

In this episode, Bill and Gavin explore why ideas don’t speak for themselves — and how story gives them a voice. They unpack the idea of “storytelling power” versus organizational power, and why leaders who can’t tell stories struggle to inspire action. Gavin defines story as “information wrapped in emotion for commercial purpose” — a deceptively simple definition that can transform the way you present ideas.

They also dive into Gavin’s concept of “grandma language,” the art of making complex ideas accessible without losing credibility. Using examples from CEOs and real-world leaders, Gavin shows how mixing simple and sophisticated language helps ideas stick — even in high-stakes environments like cybersecurity or strategy.

You’ll also hear about the seven-year journey of writing Story Business — how Gavin refined his thinking, wrestled with simplicity, and learned that clarity comes only after doing the hard work of distillation. Along the way, he and Bill reflect on humility in communication, the creative joy of writing, and why being “nicer to people” may be the best advice for every thought leader.

If you’ve ever struggled to make your ideas land — this conversation will show you how story turns insight into impact.

Three Key Takeaways:

• The Best Idea Doesn’t Win — The Best-Packaged One Does.
Gavin argues that success isn’t about having the smartest idea, but the clearest, most emotionally resonant one. Storytelling gives ideas power, helping them stand out and gain traction in organizations that aren’t true meritocracies.

• “Grandma Language” Makes Ideas Stick.
Gavin introduces the concept of blending “credibility language” (expert terminology) with “grandma language” (simple, human words). The balance builds trust and accessibility — a must for leaders trying to communicate complex ideas to busy or distracted audiences.

• Simplicity Is Earned Through Hard Work.
Writing Story Business taught Gavin that true simplicity comes only after deep thought and refinement. As he tells Bill, people make ideas complicated because they haven’t finished thinking them through — and clarity is proof of mastery.

If this conversation on Story Business sparked new ways to think about how you share ideas, you’ll love hearing from Michelle Mellon in Thought Leadership and Storytelling. She dives deep into how narrative builds trust, shapes perception, and turns expertise into connection.

Listen next: Thought Leadership and Storytelling with Michelle Mellon — and discover how to make your stories resonate long after the meeting ends.