This week, Finn and Dr. Sarah welcome writer and recovery advocate Jason Mayo, author of In Case of Emergency: Break Childhood and founder of Sober Not Subtle. In this honest and often hilarious conversation, Jason opens up about the hidden trauma of childhood divorce, the messy intersection of mental health and sobriety, and the art of starting over without self-destructing. Together they unpack perfectionism, parenting, depression, and why “connection is the opposite of addiction.”

Key Takeaways:

• Trauma isn’t just tragedy — it’s the quiet disconnection that shapes how we love and cope.

• “I’m not a bad person getting good; I’m a sick person getting well.”

• Mental health and recovery aren’t separate stories — they’re one healing arc.

• Boundaries are love in action: “No” is a full sentence.

• Connection and purpose are the antidotes to isolation and burnout.

Timestamps:

[00:01:00] Jason’s recovery story — from emotional bottom to connection.

[00:06:00] Marriage in sobriety and rebuilding trust after addiction.

[00:13:00] The “three C’s” of marriage — a hilarious family lesson.

[00:15:00] The ACEs test and realizing childhood divorce as trauma.

[00:18:00] What trauma really is — and why it never fully disappears.

[00:25:00] Mental health crisis and what real support looks like.

[00:31:00] How sharing pain turns into purpose.

[00:35:00] Why men struggle to talk about emotions — and how to start.

[00:41:00] Recovery, community, and the healing power of connection.

[00:44:00] Jason’s top two recovery tools: boundaries and purpose.

Resources Mentioned:

• In Case of Emergency: Break Childhood by Jason Mayo

• SoberNotSubtle.com

• Co-Crazy by Dr. Sarah Michaud

• Gabor Maté – The Myth of Normal

• Peter Levine – Waking the Tiger

• Dr. Sarah Michaud, PsyD — Author of Co Crazy

• Leaving CrazyTown YouTube Channel

• Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

If this conversation hit home, share it with a friend in recovery who’s learning to set boundaries or find their voice.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope.Subscribe, rate, and review—and share with a friend who’s ready to leave CrazyTown.

Shame spirals: we all know them, we all hate them, and most of us try to outrun them. In this raw, revealing, and hilariously honest conversation, Finn and Dr. Sarah break down what a shame spiral really is, where these intense emotional reactions come from, and why they often have deep roots in childhood patterns. Using Sarah’s real-life moment of “F-bomb shame” as a jumping-off point, the duo explores how old wounds get activated, why our reactions can feel so outsized, and what it takes to recover with compassion, clarity, and grounded truth.Takeaways

• Shame spirals often signal past trauma or early developmental wounds.

• Overreactions usually mean the present moment has touched an old story.

• Self-compassion is the antidote to shame—not self-punishment.“Pull the lens back”: most shame triggers aren’t life-altering in reality

• Healing requires understanding, kindness, and choosing not to re-abuse yourself.

• Key Timestamps

  • [00:00] – Welcome back: what shame spirals feel like

• • [01:00] – Recognizing hidden vs. overt shame

  • [02:00] – The “speaking regret” shame spiral

  • [03:00] – Sarah’s F-bomb video story & activation

  • [06:00] – Childhood memories that amplify present shame

  • [10:00] – Tools: pulling back the lens, practicing self-compassion

  • [12:00] – Finn’s shame around talking too much in groups

  • [15:00] – Trauma origins of shame patterns

• • [18:00] – Healing, compassion, and the parent-you-needed approach

  Notable Resources & Guest Links

  • Dr. Sarah Michaud, PsyD — Author of Co Crazy

• • Leaving CrazyTown YouTube Channel

  • Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

  Subscribe, rate, and review Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown.Share this episode with someone who spirals into shame and needs real-talk tools to get out.

  Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud. With humor, honesty, and a healthy dose of clinical insight, they tackle the chaos of dysfunctional relationships and offer real tools for healing. Subscribe wherever you listen and follow @LeavingCrazyTown on social media for more real-talk recovery content.

  
  

When we don’t know how to ask for what we need, we manipulate, avoid, or overextend. In this powerful and painfully relatable episode, Finn and Dr. Sarah unpack how fear of rejection fuels codependent behaviors—and how to finally break the cycle. From “polite lying” to people-pleasing to emotional seduction, they explore what drives us to control outcomes instead of asking directly for what we want. The truth? Authentic connection only happens when we stop trying to manage other people’s feelings and start telling the truth about our own.

Takeaways

• Fear of rejection is the root of many manipulative and codependent behaviors.

• You can’t build trust when your words and energy don’t match—people feel the fear underneath.

• Saying “no” to a request isn’t rejection of you; it’s just a no to that thing.

• Authentic requests lead to authentic relationships. Manipulation always breeds distance.

• Recovery means tolerating discomfort, setting clear boundaries, and staying in your own hula hoop.

Key Timestamps

• [00:01:00] Childhood patterns that teach us to manipulate instead of ask

• [00:03:00] Fear of rejection and why we avoid hearing “no”

• [00:06:00] How manipulation erodes trust and safety in relationships

• [00:08:00] The energy of fear—why people feel dishonesty before they hear it

• [00:12:00] Taking risks: why direct requests are a practice in courage and recovery

• Notable Resources

  Dr. Sarah Michaud’s book Co Crazy

• Follow Finn and Sarah on YouTube: @LeavingCrazyTown

• Additional tools and resources: www.drsarahmichaud.com
  

• If you loved this episode, subscribe and leave a review—it helps others find the show. And share it with that friend who always says “I’m fine” but clearly isn’t.
  

  Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. This isn’t your average recovery show—it’s part laughter, part therapy, and all truth. Subscribe wherever you listen and join us as we break out of CrazyTown—one honest conversation at a time.
  

In this powerful and deeply human episode, Dr. Sarah sits down with Jamie H from Tennessee — a recovering alcoholic who turned his pain into purpose by helping women rebuild their lives through sober living. From childhood trauma and abuse to relapse, surrender, and radical forgiveness, Jamie shares how accepting responsibility for his healing set him free. His story is raw, redemptive, and full of hope — proof that no matter how dark it gets, recovery offers a way through.

Takeaways

• Forgiveness isn’t weakness — it’s freedom.

• “As long as I don’t drink or drug, I have a chance to get to the other side.”

• Recovery begins with accepting the truth of who we are

• The hardest words in healing: “It’s me, not them.”

• Pain from the past can be transformed through surrender and service.

Key Timestamps

[00:00] Welcome from Dr. Sarah — setting up today’s conversation

[02:00] Jamie’s first surrender and relapse story

[05:00] Accepting addiction as a mental illness

[09:00] The cost of denial — relapse and loss

[11:00] Jamie’s childhood trauma and family history

[16:00] Betrayal, forgiveness, and seeing through new “spiritual glasses”

[20:00] Letting go of resentment and reclaiming power [27:00] Jamie’s top tips for staying sober — no matter what

Notable Resources or Guest Links

• Dr. Sarah Michaud, Author of Co Crazy

• Jamie H’s Women’s Sober Living Community (Tennessee)

• Follow @LeavingCrazyTown on YouTube

CTA If this story moved you, share it with someone who’s ready to let go of resentment and find freedom in forgiveness. Subscribe, rate, and review — your support helps others discover hope beyond codependency.

Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown is the raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud — two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Come for the truth bombs, stay for the laughter, and leave with a renewed sense of agency.

In this episode of Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown, Finn and Dr. Sarah get real about how communication breaks down when codependency takes the wheel. From the habitual “I don’t care” to the evasive “it’s complicated,” they unpack the language patterns that keep us disconnected from our true feelings. Through personal stories, humor, and practical insights, they reveal how to move from confusion to clarity—and why speaking your truth is a radical act of recovery.

Takeaways

• Common codependent phrases like “I don’t care,” “I don’t know,” and “it’s complicated” often mask fear or avoidance.

• Communication clarity begins with self-awareness—notice what you’re really feeling before responding.

• Detachment from emotions is normal in early recovery; reconnecting takes intention and patience.

• • Learning to express needs and preferences (even simple ones like dinner choices) builds emotional confidence.
  • Honest language strengthens boundaries and self-trust.

• Key Timestamps

  [00:02:00] The four codependent communication habits: “I don’t care,” “I’m confused,” “I don’t know,” “It’s complicated.”

  [00:04:30] How “I don’t know” masks fear of judgment and emotional vulnerability.

  [00:07:00] The childhood roots of people-pleasing and early silence.

  [00:10:00] Everyday examples of communication shutdown—how to spot and shift them.

  [00:13:00] Why “It’s complicated” really means “I’m afraid to decide.”

  [00:15:00] Final reflections: awareness, clarity, and courage to speak your truth.Notable Resources or Guest Links

  • Dr. Sarah Michaud, Author of Co Crazy

  • Follow @leavingcrazytown on YouTube

  • Website: drsarahmichaud.com
    

  If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with a friend ready to reclaim their voice and leave confusion behind.

  Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

Ever find yourself trapped in a spiral of overexplaining when you really just want to say no? In this raw and hilarious episode, Finn and Dr. Sarah unpack what they call “The Codependent No” — those long, apologetic responses that avoid clarity, create confusion, and leave everyone frustrated. From miscommunication marathons to guilt-driven maybes, they reveal why saying no clearly is one of the most powerful recovery tools there is. Get ready to laugh, cringe, and finally free yourself from the need to please.

Takeaways

• “No” is a complete sentence — clarity is kindness.

• Overexplaining often creates more disconnection, not less.

• Feeling guilty when you say no? That’s codependency talking.

• Practice saying no with safe people and tolerating discomfort.

• Saying yes when you mean no leads to resentment, anxiety, and burnout.

Key Timestamps

• [00:00] – The “Codependent No”: what it is and why we all do it

• [02:00] – “I’d rather not” and other clear communication tools

• [05:00] – Overexplaining, miscommunication, and frustration

• [08:00] – Guilt, boundaries, and the false responsibility trap

• [11:00] – Practicing honest no’s with safe people

• [12:00] – The consequences of saying yes when you mean no

Notable Resources & Guest Links

• Dr. Sarah Michaud, PsyD – Author of Co Crazy: One Psychologist’s Recovery from Codependency and Addiction

• Leaving CrazyTown YouTube Channel – Watch full episodes here

• • Follow Finn & Dr. Sarah on Instagram and YouTube @LeavingCrazyTown

  🎧 Subscribe, rate, and review Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. 💬 Share this episode with someone who’s ready to practice a confident, guilt-free “No.”

  Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud. With humor, honesty, and a healthy dose of clinical insight, they tackle the chaos of dysfunctional relationships and offer real tools for healing. Subscribe wherever you listen and follow @LeavingCrazyTown on social media for more real-talk recovery content.

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Andrea Ashley, host of The Adult Child Podcast, joins Dr. Sarah Michaud for a no-filter conversation about the messy middle of recovery—the part where you’re learning to stop saving everyone else and finally start saving yourself. From unraveling childhood patterns to setting adult boundaries that stick, Andrea shares how she turned her pain into purpose and built a platform for fellow Adult Children ready to get real about healing. Expect laughter, raw truth, and practical tools for leaving CrazyTown behind.

Takeaways

• Healing starts with awareness—and the courage to see your story differently.

• Codependency recovery is about identity reclamation, not perfection.

• Boundaries are an act of self-love, not punishment.

• • The inner child needs validation, not discipline.
  • Humor and honesty are recovery tools, too.

• Key Timestamps

  • [00:03:20] Andrea shares her journey from dysfunction to discovery.

  • [00:10:45] The moment she realized codependency was running her life.

  • [00:18:00] Breaking the shame spiral: reparenting the inner child.

  • [00:27:15] The truth about boundaries and backlash.

• • [00:36:50] Building The Adult Child Podcast as a recovery resource.

  Notable Resources / Guest Links

  • Andrea Ashley: @adultchildpod | The Adult Child Podcast

  • Dr. Sarah Michaud: Author of Co Crazy

  • Follow Finn & Sarah: @leavingcrazytown

  CTA

  Subscribe and leave a review! Share this episode with someone ready to ditch codependency and find freedom.

  Codependency Recovery: Leaving CrazyTown is hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud—two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Tune in each week for truth bombs, laughter, and tools for emotional freedom.

Finn and Sarah get real (and really funny) about health anxiety—the mental habit of turning every ache into catastrophe—and share how recovery tools like reality-checking, perspective, and self-compassion can break the spiral. You’ll hear outrageous mind-movies, why our brains escalate to “late-stage everything,” and simple practices to build a looser, friendlier relationship with your thoughts.

Takeaways

• Thoughts are not facts; feelings are not emergencies—build space before reacting.

• The mind loves worst-case stories (“late stage everything”); humor shrinks their power.

• Reality-check: get clarity with a call or simple test before catastrophizing.

• Past losses/trauma can prime health anxiety; name the trigger to lower intensity.

• Self-permission helps: if you do overreact (ER calls, extra vet visits), meet it with compassion and learn.

Key Timestamps

• 00:00 — Welcome & “I thought it was an aneurysm” opener.

• 02:00 — Why the brain jumps to late-stage diagnoses.

• 04:05 — The dog-at-the-vet spiral (and the bill).

• 05:10 — The “black spot” baby story: a washcloth cure.

• 08:00 — Panic calls after family loss—when trauma fuels alarms.

• 11:10 — Tools: clarity calls, humor, and perspective practice.

If this episode resonated, share it with a friend who might be stuck in their own CrazyTown—and don’t forget to subscribe for more raw recovery talk.

Come for the truth bombs, stay for the laughter, and leave with a renewed sense of agency. Subscribe and review the podcast, watch on YouTube @leavingcrazytown, and share episodes with a friend who’s ready to leave CrazyTown.