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  • 14. Music, Youth Justice, and the Power of Belonging, with Dr Alexis Kallio

    14. Music, Youth Justice, and the Power of Belonging, with Dr Alexis Kallio
    2026/03/31
    What happens when a researcher brings together music education and criminology to advocate for the rights of some of society's most marginalised young people? In this episode, I speak with Dr Alexis Kallio, an interdisciplinary researcher whose work sits at a unique and important intersection—one that is challenging how institutions think about music, punishment, and what young people truly need to thrive. Alexis shares how her background in both music education and criminology led her to focus on music programs in youth justice settings, and what she has learned from collaborating with Western Australian hip-hop artist Optimus (Scott Griffiths) on the Banksia Beats program at Banksia Hill Youth Detention Centre. She reflects on what it means to meet young people as musicians rather than as students, why ownership and trust are so transformative in carceral settings, and why trauma-informed practice is relevant for every musician working with young people, not just those in detention. Throughout, Alexis makes a compelling case that music is not a luxury or a reward—it is a fundamental right for every child. Key Topics Discussed How Alexis's degrees in both music education and criminology shaped her research focus on youth justice settingsThe Banksia Beats program at Banksia Hill Youth Detention Centre and what makes it effectiveWhy meeting young people as musicians—rather than as teacher and student—is central to building trustThe importance of agency, ownership, and strengths-based approaches in music programs for incarcerated youthTrauma-informed practice and why it matters across all music education contextsWhy there is no one-size-fits-all pedagogical approach: responding to the individual in the roomThe concept of "hungry listening" (Dylan Robinson) and what it means for musicians working in community settingsAlexis's national symposium on music, crime and social change and the community it has createdThe Policing Australian Popular Music project and its work with Queensland Police ServiceThe case for music and music education as a fundamental right for every child Notable Quotes "At the end of the day, these are children." "In a space where young people have ownership over literally nothing—they can't even choose the temperature of their shower—to have ownership over something with expensive music equipment, and have that as yours, can be a really powerful sense of pride." "There is no one right way, because there's no one child." "Music is all about connection. And connection is all about music." "I'd like music and music education to be a right for every child, regardless of their background or circumstance—something that is seen as essential to their lives now, but also their growth." "Young people's voices are sometimes articulated more clearly through their music than through any words they'll say to a social worker or a psychologist." Resources Mentioned Hungry Listening by Dylan Robinson About Guest Dr Alexis Kallio is an interdisciplinary researcher at Griffith University whose work explores how music education and creative practices create opportunities for equity and justice, particularly for young people experiencing vulnerability or marginalisation. Drawing on expertise in both music education and criminology, Alexis examines how educators and musicians navigate questions of power, values, and meaning in their work. Her research bridges grassroots community practice with institutional frameworks, asking critical questions about how creative spaces can be structured to support positive youth development. She has taught across studio, school, university, and community settings in both Australia and Finland. Connect with Alexis Episode Highlights 05:00 Why Alexis sees all young people—regardless of setting—as deserving the same child-centred approach to music13:30 What makes the Banksia Beats program so effective, and why musical expertise matters15:45 The profound impact of ownership and trust in a detention centre music studio22:00 Why music is uniquely positioned to develop both individual identity and social connection simultaneously26:00 Dylan Robinson's concept of "hungry listening" and what it means to truly listen to young people29:00 The national symposium on music, crime and social change—and finding your people33:30 Alexis's submission to the youth justice inquiry and her challenge to the idea of incarceration as a solution36:30 The Policing Australian Popular Music project and working with Queensland Police Service
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    42 分
  • 13. Coming to our senses: How creativity helps us trust our own experience, with Dr Carla van Laar

    13. Coming to our senses: How creativity helps us trust our own experience, with Dr Carla van Laar
    2026/02/28
    Coming to our senses: How creativity helps us trust our own experience, with Dr Carla van Laar Show Notes In this episode, I speak with Dr. Carla Van Laar, a creative and experiential therapist, painter, and passionate advocate for the creative revolution in mental health and wellbeing. With over 30 years' experience using the arts for health and wellbeing, Carla is the founding director of the Creative Mental Health Forum and convener of the Psychotherapy and Counselling Federation of Australia's (PACFA) College of Creative and Experiential Therapies. Carla shares her compelling vision for how creativity can act as a reality check in a world that constantly asks us to outsource our sense of what's real. From her early childhood discovery of perspective in art through to her current advocacy work at a national level, Carla's journey illuminates why creative engagement is essential—not peripheral—to mental health and social wellbeing. The conversation explores the disconnect between mounting evidence for creative arts therapies and their limited implementation in Australia's health system, the need for a rethink of biomedical models to better accommdate creative therapies, and what happens when we create accessible spaces where people can connect through the arts. Key Topics Discussed Creativity as a Reality Check How creativity restores trust in first-hand experiencing in a society that asks us to outsource our sense of realityThe parallel between gaslighting dynamics and systemic forces that undermine our perceptionHow creative practice brings us into the present moment and to our senses—sight, touch, hearing, taste, and scent Creative Flow States and Wellbeing Research on the benefits of engaging in creative practice for as little as 20 minutesHow flow states create a sense of timelessness, reduce stress, improve sleep, and help us meet life's challengesNavigating obstacles to creativity: inner critics, self-judgement, attachment to product over process Personal Journey to Creative Arts Therapy How learning about perspective as a young child changed Carla's worldviewUsing creative practice to navigate uncertainty and make sense of the world through her own lensesThe convergence of fine arts, community arts practice, and creative arts therapy Systemic Advocacy and Reform Strategic positioning of creative arts therapies within the broader psychotherapy and counselling frameworkThe 2020 push during COVID to ensure creative therapists were part of mental health system reformsInclusion in national standards for the psychotherapy and counselling workforce The Evidence Gap and Implementation Challenges Why the question "does it work?" is now outdated—World Health Organisation and global health bodies have established the benefitsCreative engagement addresses isolation and loneliness, underlying causes of depression and mental ill-healthThe challenge of measuring relational, context-responsive practices using biomedical modelsLooking at return on investment differently: reduced hospital admissions, reduced burden on mental health services, suicide prevention Rethinking Service Delivery Models The limitations of applying one-hour-a-week biomedical models to creative therapiesCarla's vision for community creative health hubs where people can spend time, connect, participate, and be audiencesThe story of the Inverlock Pop-Up Art Co: what happens when creative spaces become accessibleThe gap between GP mental health care plans and accessible support Shifting Worldviews Why awareness-raising alone isn't enough—people need embodied experience to understand the benefitsThe 85-year-old veteran who went from "what's this mumbo jumbo?" to "this creative stuff actually helps me" in 12 monthsDifferent forms of evidence: the persistence of creative and cultural practices over millennia as proof of efficacyThe importance of policy makers and health professionals having their own creative experiences Notable Quotes "Creativity itself can and does restore our trust in first-hand experiencing in a world that keeps asking us to outsource our sense of reality." "Our senses—whichever ones we love the most—can all be sources of wonderful information about the world around us. And they are the original source for us of our ways of knowing and navigating the world. Creativity in that way isn't seen as an escape from reality, it can actually be a reality check." "Engaging in a creative practice of any form really brings us into the here and now. We have to be present, because that's where it's happening, right here, right now." "Connection is the most important thing. We need connection, and in fact, us, like every other living thing, we gravitate towards connection. Everything is connected, everything wants to be connected. We're no different. We need connection to thrive." "Tell me, and I'll forget. Show me, and I might remember, but involve me and I'll understand. When people experience for themselves the benefit, ...
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    43 分
  • 12. The opera singer who chose community over Carnegie Hall: The singing for health revolution, led by Liz Lecoanet

    12. The opera singer who chose community over Carnegie Hall: The singing for health revolution, led by Liz Lecoanet
    2026/02/01
    This episode features Liz Lecoanet, an international vocal specialist who's pioneering the integration of singing into healthcare and workplace wellbeing. As the first wellbeing choral conductor employed by New South Wales Health in Australia, Liz shares her passionate mission to make singing as prescribable as exercise, revealing how she co-founded "Singing for Health" with GP Dr Isabel Hansen, a singing group for medical professionals. Liz's journey from opera stages in London and New York to hospital wards reveals a profound shift: the most powerful music happens when we stop trying to "get it right" and start listening. This conversation explores the essential balance between doing and being, the difference between community music and performance, and why Liz is convinced that singing is an essential service. Liz's infectious energy and unwavering conviction that singing is a human right make this a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of arts, health, and social change. Topics Discussed The birth of Singing for Health: How a frustrated conversation about people being told they "can't sing" led to a partnership between music and medicinePrescribing singing like exercise: The campaign to have GPs prescribe singing as a health interventionCreating safe spaces for vulnerability: Why healthcare workers particularly need permission to "get it wrong"The yin-yang of modern life: How singing provides essential balance to our "tick-box" cultureOpera training meets community practice: Navigating the transition from perfectionism to presenceEmbodied leadership: How physical presence and authentic passion create permission for othersMedical conferences and boardrooms: Strategies for convincing sceptics through experienceThe social movement: Positioning arts and health as fundamental rather than supplementaryIndigenous wisdom: Reconnecting with singing as inherent human expression Notable Quotes "I just want to go into a court of law and prove what this does to somebody when you tell them that they can't sing... what it does to your immune system, what it does to your relationships, how that changes your workplace... if you tell someone they don't have a voice, what that does to their life, and how you are robbing them of being a human being." "Everybody's breathing in the room, so they qualify as a singer, because they're breathing." "You don't need to be a professional soccer player to take a walk around the block and get some exercise. That's what I'm talking about in terms of singing." "The world of light, the world of doing... we're very busy yang orientated, light people. But very seldom do we actually close our eyes and just listen." "When people discover [their voice], they go from being a waitress to a manager in their café, or they get out of a crappy relationship, they ask their boss for a raise." "These are health workers that were burnt out before COVID, and they came to choir every week online to be muted. If that doesn't tell anyone that's an essential service, what the hell does?" "We need that element. It's missing from some people's lives. And it's got to happen if humanity is going to rise up." "Let's not try and make this into anything, let's just trust our humanity, and trust the song, and trust that it will be something." About Liz Liz Lecoanet is an international vocal specialist and choir conductor who bridges the worlds of professional performance and community wellbeing. With training from London's opera houses and performance experience in New York, she brings a unique perspective to participatory music-making. As the first wellbeing choral conductor employed by New South Wales Health, she co-founded the Singing for Health programme with Dr Isabel Hansen, pioneering the integration of singing into healthcare settings. Liz received the Hidden Hero of Sydney Award from the City of Sydney in 2014 for conducting Creativity Australia's With One Voice Choir, which grew to over 180 members and became the subject of the award-winning documentary "Sing Your Little Heart Out." She has worked internationally, including with Beth Israel Hospital in New York using sound for pain management, and continues to present at medical conferences on the health benefits of singing. Today, Liz conducts multiple community choirs across Sydney, brings singing into workplaces to nurture connection and creativity, and works tirelessly—often voluntarily—to establish singing as a prescribable health intervention in Australia. Her approach emphasises listening over performing, presence over perfection, and the fundamental human right to use one's voice. Connect with Liz https://lizlecoanet.com/ Episode Highlights [00:02:17] Liz's passionate declaration about "proving in court" what denying someone's voice does to their life sets the tone for the entire conversation [00:09:21] The art of holding space for healthcare workers who desperately need permission to make mistakes [00:12:01] How Liz had...
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    44 分
  • 11. Community music in the academy—an unholy alliance? with Dr Francis Yapp

    11. Community music in the academy—an unholy alliance? with Dr Francis Yapp
    2025/11/30

    In this episode, Melissa speaks with Dr Francis Yapp, Senior Lecturer and Academic Director of the School of Music at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch, New Zealand. They explore the world of community music and its place in tertiary education. Francis shares his journey from classical training to community music leadership, discusses the innovative community music pathway at Canterbury, and addresses the ongoing debate about institutionalising grassroots musical practices.

    Key Topics Discussed
    • Defining community music - Exploring what community music means and how it differs from traditional music education approaches
    • Francis's journey to community music - From classical cellist to community music leader, advocate, and educator
    • The University of Canterbury's community music pathway - Origins, curriculum, and graduate outcomes of this innovative programme
    • Teaching philosophy - How group singing and cello teaching experiences shape Francis's pedagogical approach
    • The institutionalisation debate - Addressing concerns about bringing grassroots community music practices into academic settings
    • Māori musical practices - Discussion of waiata, kapa haka, and other traditional forms as examples of community music
    Māori terms used in this episode:
    • Waiata - Māori songs that serve various cultural purposes and are central to Māori identity
    • Kapa haka - Traditional Māori performing arts including singing, dancing, and chanting
    • Marae - A communal and sacred meeting ground in Māori culture where formal greetings and discussions take place
    • Taonga puoro - Traditional Māori musical instruments, considered cultural treasures
    • Kura Kaupapa Māori - Māori-language immersion schools operating under Māori custom and using Māori as the medium of instruction
    • Te Reo Māori - The Māori language
    Connect with Guest
    • University of Canterbury School of Music
    • Connect with Francis on LinkedIn
    • Listen to Salve Regina
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    1 時間 3 分
  • 10. Creative compassionate disruption through music with Phoene Cave

    10. Creative compassionate disruption through music with Phoene Cave
    2025/10/31
    In this episode, Melissa speaks with Phoene Cave, a registered music therapist, creative project manager, singer, trainer, and reflective practice supervisor who has spent two decades building social connections through music in some of the most challenging settings imaginable. From working with female offenders in high-security prisons to pioneering Singing for Lung Health programs, Phoene brings a unique perspective on how music can create meaningful change. She's trained over 350 facilitators globally and is now bringing creative health toolkits to nursing students, helping healthcare workers discover the power of creativity for both self-care and patient care. Phoene's philosophy of "creative compassionate disruption" informs everything she does, from her music therapy practice to her work with community musicians. In this conversation, she shares insights on establishing trust and safety, the importance of supervision and reflective practice, and why she believes compassion and empathy need to be balanced with healthy boundaries to prevent burnout. Key Topics Discussed Singing for Lung Health Training How Phoene became a world specialist through learning on the job at Royal Brompton Hospital (2007)The evolution from in-person to online training during the pandemicTraining over 350 facilitators globally, including respiratory nurses and physiotherapistsThe importance of embodied practice and understanding respiratory issues Music Therapy vs Community Music The subtle distinctions between working as a music therapist and a community musicianHow both can achieve similar outcomes, but with different levels of articulation and awarenessThe power of music to shift narratives and create alternative experiences Creative Health Training for Healthcare Workers Providing creative health toolkits to nursing students at Roehampton UniversityThe overwhelming soundscapes in hospitals and their impact on staff wellbeingTeaching self-care through breath, movement, creative writing, and musicHow creativity provides agency and encourages thinking outside the box Supervision and Reflective Practice Why supervision is vital for community musicians, especially those in challenging settingsThe difference between music therapy supervision and reflective practice for community musiciansCompassion fatigue and the importance of boundaries Values and Approach Safety, trust, love, and presence as starting points with any groupThe importance of physical space and "resonance" - being aware 360 degreesCreative compassionate disruption as a guiding philosophyWorking in your "back body" - listening openly rather than being overly focused Personal Journey Training as a jazz improviser at Goldsmiths and overcoming challenges as a female vocalistMultiple music therapy trainings creating an unusual and valuable perspectiveThe transition from performer to facilitator and finding fulfilment in giving others a voiceDiscovering neurodivergence later in life About Guest Phoene Cave is a registered music therapist, creative project manager, singer, trainer, and reflective practice supervisor in the creative health field. She has spent two decades working with diverse communities in nurseries, schools, further and higher education, concert halls, social housing, care homes, hospitals, and a detention centre and prison. Phoene is recognised as a world specialist in Singing for Lung Health, having trained over 350 facilitators globally since 2015. Her work bridges the worlds of music therapy, community music, and healthcare, bringing creative approaches to both patient care and healthcare worker wellbeing. Her philosophy of "creative compassionate disruption" informs all her work, from facilitating sessions in challenging environments to training the next generation of creative health practitioners. She is currently working on recording an album revisiting songs from her earlier career as a jazz vocalist. Connect with Guest Website: www.phoenecave.co.ukThe Transit Collective: https://transitcollective.org/ Episode Highlights [00:02:00] - The journey to becoming a Singing for Lung Health specialist - from answering an advertisement to training 350 facilitators globally [00:06:15] - Learning on the job: the benefits and challenges of building the plane while flying it [00:10:43] - What's the difference between music therapy and community music? A nuanced exploration [00:15:18] - Establishing trust and safety: the starting point with any group, from prisoners to patients [00:25:08] - Creative Health Toolkits for nursing students: transforming healthcare through creativity [00:30:09] - The flow-on benefits when healthcare workers have creative tools for self-care [00:35:04] - What is supervision in music therapy and why it matters for community musicians [00:43:56] - Compassion fatigue: the danger of being a caring empath without boundaries [00:46:25] - Why Phoene doesn't miss performing on stage (but is recording an album) [00:49:50] - Advice to ...
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    51 分
  • 9. Making music that matters: The book! Solo episode

    9. Making music that matters: The book! Solo episode
    2025/10/21

    In this special solo episode, Melissa announces the publication of her new book, "Making Music That Matters: Positive Music Leadership for Social Health". She explores how musicians can address the crisis of social connection through community music-making, offering evidence-based frameworks for building meaningful careers whilst fostering social health and wellbeing.

    "This book is my attempt to bridge two realities—to show that there's a way to have a fulfilling, sustainable career in music whilst also addressing one of the most pressing challenges of our time: the loss of human connection."

    Endorsements

    Professor Kim S. Cameron (University of Michigan) "This wonderfully creative book shows how music transforms lives, teams, organizations, and society."

    Dr Dave Camlin (Trinity Laban, UK) "An essential read for emerging music leaders to help make sense of the complex and exciting traditions of socially transformational music making."

    Professor Alexandra Lamont (University of Queensland) "Well-researched and theoretically-grounded ... explores the less-well studied worlds of those who lead and facilitate democratic participatory music making."

    Book Details

    Title: Making Music That Matters: Positive Music Leadership for Social Health Author: Melissa Forbes Publisher: Routledge Publication Date: 22 October 2025

    ISBN Information:

    • Paperback: 9781032730660
    • Hardback: 9781032724157
    • eBook: 9781003426509
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    9 分
  • 8. Singing as collective care: Trauma-informed choral leadership with Joanna Brooke

    8. Singing as collective care: Trauma-informed choral leadership with Joanna Brooke
    2025/10/02
    Singing as Collective Care: Trauma-Informed Choral Leadership with Joanna Brooke

    In this episode, Melissa speaks with choral conductor and soprano Joanna Brooke about her unique approach to music-making that sits at the intersection of musical excellence and trauma-informed care. Joanna shares how she creates spaces where people can reconnect with their birthright to sing, moving beyond Western cultural barriers of musical elitism to foster genuine human connection through voice.

    Drawing on her background in social work and over 10 years of choral conducting experience, Joanna discusses her innovative practice of reclaiming improvisation, shifting from production-focused to expression-centered music-making, and developing what she calls "singing as collective care" - the focus of her new PhD at the University of Melbourne.

    Key Topics Discussed

    Confronting Musical Elitism

    • How Western contexts create feelings of unworthiness around singing
    • The concept of singing as a birthright versus attachment to skill and ability
    • Creating spaces for people to shed learned limitations and reconnect with organic vocal expression

    Trauma-Informed Musical Practice

    • Setting up spaces with trauma-informed principles without pathologizing the experience
    • The importance of choice, safety, and never requiring solo participation
    • Viewing disconnection from singing as trauma work requiring restoration

    Reclaiming Improvisation

    • Moving beyond jazz and classical virtuosity concepts to experimental, free-form singing
    • Using musical motifs and compositional structures as containers for safe exploration
    • The role of power-sharing and authentic participation by musical leaders

    From Production to Expression

    • Shifting focus from audience-oriented outcomes to present-moment experience
    • Balancing expression-centered goals with aesthetically pleasing results
    • The trauma-informed importance of ensuring beautiful collective sound

    Feminine Leadership in Music

    • Challenging masculine conducting stereotypes of control and certainty
    • Exploring communal, open, fluid, and emotional leadership approaches
    • The gendered aspects of musical leadership and ethics of care

    Arts and Health Integration

    • Bridging the gap between artistic practice and therapeutic outcomes
    • The distinction between art-making and therapy while acknowledging therapeutic benefits
    • Creating dialogue between arts and health practitioners
    About Joanna

    Joanna Brooke is a choral conductor and soprano based in Melbourne with over 10 years of experience leading choirs. She currently serves as musical director of the Monash University Choral Society and has worked as artistic director of the Jubilate Singers and with Gondwana Choirs.

    With training in social work, Joanna's unique practice sits at the intersection of music and trauma-informed care. She leads research into trauma-informed creative arts interventions and presents at arts health conferences and events. In 2025, she commenced a PhD at the University of Melbourne exploring "singing as collective care."

    Connect with Joanna

    Find Joanna on LinkedIn
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    41 分
  • 7. Making loud mistakes: The serious business of play in community music with Jane York

    7. Making loud mistakes: The serious business of play in community music with Jane York
    2025/08/31

    Jane York shares her insights on the importance of community music-making, creating safe and playful spaces for singers, and how language choices can either include or exclude participants. She discusses her approach to leading community singing groups, including her "show and tell" performance model that creates a more comfortable alternative to traditional concert performances.

    Topics Discussed

    - The importance of community in our individualistic society - How community music provides connection across social barriers - Creating safe, playful environments for amateur musicians - The role of vulnerability and authenticity in music leadership - Depressurising the musical experience through humour and self-deprecation - Language choices that promote inclusivity in community music settings - Alternative performance models that prioritise connection over perfection - The transformative power of singing together

    Notable Quotes

    - "Please make some loud mistakes, you know, because that's how we learn, and that's how we, you know, improve. So it's a constant reiteration of this is a safe place to just be learning and not perfect yet, and we only learn through being bad at something multiple times. And then we improve." - Jane York - "The way the voice, the sound, changes, the strength, the vulnerability depending on our lived experiences, depending on what we're going through - it is really beautiful." - Jane York - "I'm not very interested in that old fashioned dynamic of expert and the students. I hope that my groups feel like we're just on a journey together." - Jane York - "I love music, and that's the impression I want to leave - just my deep love of the music that I'm teaching them, and my love of singing as opposed to my expertise at singing." - Jane York

    About Jane York

    Jane York is the founder of several community music initiatives including contemporary community choir Just Holla, workshop project Big Feminist Sing, and the ukulele group Strumming Singers. Her music leadership roles span universities, health and arts organisations, and community centres. Jane is also a regular guest conductor for many choirs, an experienced festival choir leader, and workshop facilitator. During Melbourne's COVID lockdowns, she led online lunchtime live sing-alongs, maintaining musical community when people needed it most. Jane can often be found leading singing at protests and fundraisers, using music as a tool for social change and community building.

    Connect with Jane

    - Jane on LinkedIn

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    45 分