Bryan Phelps is the founder and CEO of Big Leap, a digital marketing agency he's been running for 17 years. He's been working in digital marketing and SEO since college and recently served as a juror in a murder trial (though we don't discuss that). Bryan specializes in helping B2B tech companies and professional services firms navigate the evolving landscape of AI-powered search and discovery.
In this episode, Bryan reveals how AI is fundamentally changing SEO and digital marketing, why traditional performance marketing tactics are becoming less effective, and how companies can build "brand-led performance marketing" strategies that work across Google, AI platforms, and future technologies.
Why you have to check out today's podcast:
- Learn the key differences between B2B and B2C buyer behavior in the age of AI search.
- Discover the three pillars of AI SEO and how they relate to traditional search optimization.
- Understand why building relationships with the 95% of non-shopping audiences creates pricing power.
"A lot of value is created before you ever start a pricing conversation. So that's how we're trying to help our clients shift a bit is, not just focus on that 5% of people that are in market and then compete on price."
– Bryan Phelps
Topics Covered:
01:40 – B2B vs B2C SEO differences: How buyer journeys vary from research-heavy B2B to purchase-ready B2C audiences
04:08 – AI SEO and discoverability strategies: Understanding where audiences search and optimizing for multiple platforms beyond Google
07:44 – AI recommendations and SEO strategy overlap: How AI's "query fan out" method connects Google rankings to AI search results
12:18 – Brand element and popularity component: Why being recognized as an industry authority matters more than broad household recognition
15:05 – Brand-led performance marketing shift: Moving from link-based to mention-based strategies in the post-tracking world
18:45 – Brand ideology and differentiation process: How to define unique viewpoints and align with genuine audience connections
20:22 – AI's impact on content creation: Why long-tail content is losing value and expertise-based content is gaining importance
25:56 – Pricing advice for businesses: Building value with non-shopping audiences to reduce price sensitivity and competition
27:02 – Staying informed in marketing: Bryan's LinkedIn newsletter for non-marketers navigating industry changes
Key Takeaways:
"The exciting thing for us is I think it's kind of going back to almost like pre Google. So it really is more of a brand marketing function in a lot of ways." – Bryan Phelps
"Being known to your audience is ultimately what matters. You don't have to be the household name, necessarily, but if your audience is just a little bit more niche and specific, you can be the brand in their world." – Bryan Phelps
"Our goal isn't to take any company and just try to cover the broadest of brands... we're trying to ultimately create a brand that aligns with our ideal client." – Bryan Phelps
"Our goal is to help brands be remembered, not just discovered." – Bryan Phelps
Resources and People Mentioned:
- Big Leap Digital Marketing Agency: https://bigleap.com
- Kobe Bush: Team member who coined "people notice different" concept
- Query Fan Out: AI method of breaking prompts into multiple searches
- Brand Ideology Process: Big Leap's framework for unique positioning
- Zero Click Marketing: New measurement paradigm for AI-driven discovery
Connect with Bryan Phelps:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanphelps/
- Website: https://bigleap.com
Connect with Mark Stiving:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/
- Email: mark@impactpricing.com
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