Mark Walker, CEO at Nue.io, helps companies design pricing models that align with how customers actually experience value—across usage, subscriptions, and hybrid approaches.

In this episode, he joins Mark Stiving to unpack a growing tension: companies are pushing more flexible pricing models—but customers don't always want them. At the center is a simple question that changes everything: "How would you like to buy?"

They explore why pricing isn't about finding one perfect model, but about giving customers the right options—while avoiding the complexity that slows decisions.

If you're trying to evolve your pricing so customers can decide faster (without overwhelm), this is a conversation you'll want to hear.

Why You Have to Check Out Today's Podcast:

• Understand why the future of pricing isn't choosing the "right" model—but giving customers the right options.
• See why customers don't want to decode your pricing—and how simplifying it builds trust faster.
• Learn how to experiment with pricing without breaking your business—or your customer relationships.

"You need to introduce your customers to what you're going to be changing about your product set and ask them to tell you how they would relate that to value."

— Mark Walker

Topics Covered:

02:26 – What is a revenue architecture system? Why pricing, billing, and quoting can't live in silos anymore—and how unifying them enables pricing flexibility

05:11 – Aligning pricing models to customer value Why the same product needs different pricing models depending on how customers experience value

08:11 – What "hybrid pricing" really means Breaking down how companies combine subscription and usage to better reflect real-world value

19:29 – Why changing pricing is so hard The hidden risk: once a pricing model is live, you're locked into it longer than you think

21:39 – Optionality as a pricing strategy Why giving customers multiple ways to buy may outperform forcing a single pricing model

25:42 – Outcome-based pricing: what it actually means Why outcome-based pricing isn't new—and really comes down to who takes the risk

29:36 – Don't guess pricing—ask your customers Why involving customers early can prevent costly pricing mistakes

30:44 – How to talk to customers about pricing changes The role of communication in introducing new pricing without creating resistance

Platforms & Pricing Model Examples:

• Amazon Web Services – Example of committed spend and consumption-based pricing at scale
• Snowflake – Known for credit-based pricing, highlighting the tradeoff between flexibility and pricing clarity
• DocuSign – Example of outcome-based pricing where customers pay per completed transaction
• ZoomInfo – Combines seat-based pricing with credits, illustrating hybrid pricing in practice

Key Takeaways:

"The more abstract you make the relationship between what the person is doing and what that costs, the harder it is to get the customer to budget for it." — Mark Walker

"Outcome-based pricing is not a real thing. It is just a subset of usage-based pricing." — Mark Walker

"You need to introduce your customers to what you're going to be changing… and ask them to tell you how they would relate that to value." — Mark Walker

"Align your pricing to how your customer measures value." — Mark Walker

People Mentioned:

• Steven Forth – Pricing thought leader referenced in discussions about credit-based pricing and abstraction
• Ray Tetlow – Mark Walker's mentor; known for simplifying business models and influencing his perspective on pricing structures

Connect with Mark Walker:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markwalker/
• Website: https://www.nue.io/

Connect with Mark Stiving:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/
• Email: mark@impactpricing.com

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on February 2, 2026, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go.

Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/the-three-value-disciplines-why-price-takes-the-blame-when-buying-gets-hard/

If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.

Now, go make an impact.

Connect with Mark Stiving:

• Email: mark@impactpricing.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

Keenan is the founder and CEO of A Sales Growth Company, where he helps organizations move beyond product-driven selling and into problem-centric sales strategies. He's also the author of Gap Selling, a framework built around one powerful idea: understanding the gap between where a buyer is today and where they need to be.

In this episode, Keenan and Mark Stiving unpack a truth most teams say they believe—but rarely execute: buyers don't pay for products, they pay based on the size of the problem and the cost of not solving it.

If you've ever wondered why deals stall, why buyers default to "no decision," or why price suddenly becomes the issue—this conversation will challenge how you think about selling, pricing, and what actually drives someone to act.

Why You Have to Check Out Today's Podcast:

• Understand why buyers don't change unless the problem feels urgent enough and how to surface the real cost of inaction.
• Learn how gap selling uncovers the true drivers behind buying decisions by connecting root causes, problems, and impact.
• Discover why pricing power comes from problem size not product features and how that changes the way you sell and price.

"Value is delivered by the size of the problem—and the cost of not solving it."
— Keenan

Topics Covered:

01:07 – What Gap Selling Really Means. How shifting from product pitching to problem diagnosis changes win rates, deal size, and sales outcomes

05:05 – Why Everything Starts with a Problem. The hidden truth: every buying decision is driven by a problem—whether the buyer realizes it or not

09:47 – The Different Levels of Problems in Sales. How surface-level needs hide deeper drivers—and why most salespeople stop too early

10:37 – Root Cause vs. Problem vs. Impact. A powerful framework to uncover what's really driving the need to change

13:56 – What Actually Motivates Buyers to Act. Why root causes don't trigger action—but impact does

19:30 – How Deep Should You Go in Problem Discovery? Knowing when to keep digging—and when you've found what truly matters

20:26 – A Real Example: Breaking Down Root Causes (Obesity Case). How complex problems reveal multiple layers—and why that matters in selling

25:04 – How Trust Is Built Through Problem Clarity. Why buyers trust you more when you understand their problem better than they do

27:33 – Pricing Based on the Cost of Inaction. Why price isn't about your product—it's about how painful it is not to solve the problem

Key Takeaways:

"People don't change unless their current state is untenable." – Keenan

"Gap Selling is a selling methodology that helps salespeople improve their win rate, shorten sales cycles, improve their average contract value and close more deals faster." – Keenan

"Understanding the size of the problem of not solving it is crucial for pricing." – Keenan

People / Resources Mentioned:

• A Sales Growth Company – Keenan's company; focused on modern sales strategy
• Gap Selling – Framework for understanding buyer problems and driving sales
• Gap Prospecting – Keenan's extension of gap selling into outbound and pipeline generation
• Status Quo Bias – Why buyers avoid change unless impact is high

Connect with Keenan:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimkeenan/
• Website: https://salesgrowth.com/

Connect with Mark Stiving:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/
• Email: mark@impactpricing.com