Hello wherever you might be, welcome to or welcome back to the Finding Nature podcast and my name is Nathan Robertson-Ball. Now what a week I’ve had and having, my cup feels very full after attending conferences and events, moving forward on lots of different Finding Nature ideas and programs - including something very big for 2027 that I’m going to be very excited to share more about over time, as well as an absolutely wonderful time visiting Dungog over the weekend just gone. This episode is part of the result of that weekend, as was hitting the trails again for the first trail race I’ve done since the Takayna Ultra in March 2020.

The usual listener might be wondering - what does my interest in and pursuit of running have to do with sustainability, with Finding Nature? Well let me read something I put in my journal back in May, which hopefully answers that question:

“New dawns all over the place. Through my dismantling is the dawn of wanting to go long on foot again - to ultra. To be with one of the world's best this week, to go up to Ultra Trail Australia yesterday, to be feeling the love of running that has been coming back into my life over the last month, it feels inevitable.

To find my nature - and to stay with it - means being in connection with my body, which is running. To see and explore place and potential, with self and others, is running.

Few things in my life have I loved more than long and very long distance running. Now the urge, the desire, the yearning for, has returned. Been about six years since I last did - wow, where has time gone - the time to go again is here.”

Heading up to Run Dungog was what I signed up for, but after I’d completed my registration they announced that Benn Coubrough was also going to be there - and Benn is today’s guest. I couldn’t believe it - the race I’d selected to go in after six and a half years was going to host one of Australia’s greatest ever ultra distance runners, and most likely one of the best athletes in Australia in any sport at the moment. So I reached out to Ben about whether he’d like to be on the show, and he said yes. Then I thought maybe this was the opportunity I’d been looking for to do a live podcast recording. So I asked Benn, and he said yes. So I reached out to Dan at Run Dungog about being included in their weekend of activities, and he said yes. Then we spoke to the team at the Tinshed Brewery on the Main Street of Dungog, and they said yes, and like that, the format I’ve been wanting to do for a long time was going to happen.

On Saturday we were joined by locals and travellers to listen in to what you’re about to hear. And what a story this is. Ultra distance runners and sustainability professionals have a lot of common characteristics in my mind - determined, seekers, mutants, caring, community oriented, mission focussed, and I think you’ll love this conversation even if the idea of running around the block is something you detest.

Benn’s epic adventures in races like Badwater 135, Moab 240 and Coast to Kosci are remarkable, and the insights and lessons he shares on mindset, discipline, joy and going for it are applicable to everyone out there.

Check out (and sign up to) Benn's coaching business, Stroke No Limits and follow him on Instagram.

Some extra reading relevant to this episode from our friends at Altiorem.

The board playbook: Winning strategies for long-term value creation

Policy portfolios: Empowering long-term thinking and tactical flexibility

Target-setting protocol fourth edition

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At the end of 2023 when I was starting to get this Finding Nature show on the road I was fixated on two questions after 20 years in and around large organisations where I felt both lost in my career but also demoralised by another leadership decision to avoid the harrowing reality of what climate change means for everyday people, their finances, home security, access to insurance and their right to safety. How could they abdicate their agency to help avoid harm to others and their own business? So I wanted to know two things primarily, firstly, how does change happen, and secondly, what do I do with my anger, grief, disillusionment and fear for what a climate changed planet and existence looks like? My name is Nathan Robertson-Ball, and welcome to or welcome back to the Finding Nature podcast where each week I sit with leaders who’ve pursued change and are actively working to make this planet a healthier, safer and more just place.

So to those questions I’ve been privileged to now host 128 of these episodes where I explore and seek to understand the insights and let the wisdom of my guests wash over me, and I know it’s had a significant and positive effect. Today’s guest, Glenn Albrecht, is one of the most meaningful conversations I’ve had, not just on this show, but ever.

Glenn is someone I frankly cannot believe I hadn’t come across until about six weeks ago when my John Elkington newsletter made reference to this man in New South Wales who has developed an entire lexicon for how we can better understand our emotions in a changing world - including the word solastalgia that I’ve seen pop up all over the place. Glenn is an environmental philosopher who for decades has worked to understand deeply and put precise language to the emotions people are having when they experience the loss, destruction, degradation, removal or alienation from a place they love. It’s me! These are the words I’ve been looking for for years, and he’s been up the Blue Mountains this whole time!

I absolutely loved this conversation, and Glenn’s work, especially his book Earth Emotions, is something anyone listening to this episode and working in sustainability would be well advised to seek out and immerse yourself in. The most common conversation I’ve had this whole time in Finding Nature Land centres on the despair and despondency people are having watching the world literally burn, where genocide and killing and corruption and nepotism and white collar crime are moved on from with the swipe of a finger. How to reconcile the desire and immense effort that goes into being a force for positive change, while so much else is making the underlying conditions worse?

In this episode we talk about Glenn’s work in environmental philosophy, the words he has devised and their meaning, the emptiness of language and words like sustainability and ESG that are devoid of a connection to life and relationship, the parasitic nature of the Anthropocene and his hopes, ambitions and motivation to see an era of symbiosis come to life.

Some extra reading relevant to this episode from our friends at Altiorem.

Life, Climate Volatility, and What Comes After

Our predicament: The fundamental flaws of predominant economic systems - and the cultures scaffolding them

Framing and language for effective climate conversations

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Thanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram

Joy McCann is an environmental and public historian who has worked to understand and share the stories of how the histories of people, places, ideas and the non human world have and do interact to create the cultures, practices and rhythms of life on this planet. Her work and research has taken her across Australia and over the last decade she has explored the oceans, ice, islands and coastlands of the Southern Hemisphere, resulting in her latest book, ‘Heart of Ice; A Journey Into Antarctica’s Frozen Realm’.

I loved reading the book and speaking with Joy as both helped me realise how little I know about the ice continent, as well as its fascinating history. From the commencement of planetary glaciation around 34 million years ago to the fables and myths humans projected onto the great unknown southern land, to her own trip to the ice as well as the human history of exploration and discovery there. Considering its crucial role in creating and maintaining our planet’s homeostasis the threats and perils it faces, and the rapid changes it has already undergone, are alarming to say the least. What happens in Antarctica doesn’t stay in Antarctica, and its role in regulating climate and oceanic systems is fundamental for a stable globe.

More than the threats and perils though, Joy’s work is about understanding how we got to here, and by revealing the secrets of the past - the stories human’s have and still do tell ourselves about ecosystems, place, other species and the planet in general - uncover deeply held values, bias, misalignments and emotions. In the Heart of Ice Joy shares myths about hidden monsters and something known as hollow earth theory about how humans accounted for what they didn’t know hundreds of years ago, as well as how the economic invectives of the 18th, 19th and 20th century to plunder and massacre millions of whales, seals and penguins are still entirely present today. A history of separating humanity from the natural world holds strong today, and this book tells the stories of how our species perpetuated that on a continent thousands of kilometres away, across the most gruelling and dangerous ocean crossings on the planet, only to end up carving it up for resources and what could be taken from it for profit.

Joy’s work reveals the depths of our cultures and the strength of story passed on over generations. I hope she inspires you to consider the stories you tell yourself and others.

Some extra reading relevant to this episode from our friends at Altiorem.

Is the Atlantic Overturning Circulation Approaching a Tipping Point?

What We Know About Deep-Sea Mining — and What We Don’t

Turning the tide: How to finance a sustainable ocean recovery

Check out Planet Protein and get 10% off when you sign up.

Send me a message

Thanks for listening. Follow Finding Nature on Instagram