エピソード

  • John Callachan - GoFusion - Why Customer Resolution Matters More Than Cost Reduction

    John Callachan - GoFusion - Why Customer Resolution Matters More Than Cost Reduction
    2026/10/29
    CX Files Episode 437: John Callachan – Why Customer Resolution Matters More Than Cost Reduction Guest: John Callachan, Director, GoFusion, UK Hosts: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan Published: 29 October 2026 Episode Summary Is the customer experience industry becoming too focused on reducing costs and avoiding customer interactions rather than actually solving problems? In episode 437 of the CX Files, Peter Ryan talks to John Callachan, Director of GoFusion, a UK-based business transformation advisory company. Drawing on decades of experience in Business Process Management, outsourcing, and business leadership, John challenges several assumptions about how customer experience should be delivered. John argues that businesses have become obsessed with offering more contact channels, introducing automation, and reducing the cost of customer interactions. But these investments can be counterproductive when they fail to address what customers actually want: recognition, empathy, and a resolution to their problem. The conversation also explores how automation is transforming the role of contact centre agents, why companies need to rethink training and compensation, and why the relentless pursuit of cheaper outsourcing may ultimately damage customer relationships. Key Topics Discussed 1. More contact channels don't necessarily create better CX John challenges the assumption that customers need access to every possible communication channel. Offering telephone, email, chat, and social media support is meaningless if the channels operate independently. Companies should design connected customer journeys around how people want to interact, rather than simply adding more channels. 2. Customer resolution versus contact deflection Too many organisations use technology primarily to deflect interactions and reduce costs. John argues that unresolved problems inevitably return, creating additional contacts, increasing costs, and damaging customer loyalty. The objective should be resolving the customer's problem, not simply removing an interaction from the contact centre. 3. Customer experience is a long-term investment Companies that build their entire business around customer needs can create sustainable competitive advantages. John highlights examples from the UK energy and travel markets to illustrate why customer-centric businesses can outperform competitors over time. 4. Automation is making human customer service more demanding As AI and self-service technology handle routine enquiries, human agents are increasingly left dealing with complex complaints, disputes, vulnerable customers, and situations requiring genuine empathy. The industry is removing the simpler tasks without fully recognising how demanding the remaining work has become. 5. Contact centre agents need better pay, training, and career opportunities John argues that the traditional model of treating customer service as a low-skilled, entry-level occupation is increasingly outdated. Agents now require advanced problem-solving abilities, emotional intelligence, and knowledge across several disciplines. Longer training periods, better compensation, career development, and support for mental health are essential. 6. The dangers of outsourcing based primarily on price Despite years of industry discussion about moving beyond labour arbitrage, John observes that outsourcing providers continue to compete by undercutting one another. Clients often treat outsourcing as a commodity purchase, without examining whether the price allows sufficient investment in people, training, and service quality. 7. Outcome-based pricing alone won't fix outsourcing Although outcome-based commercial models are attracting increasing attention, John argues that changing the pricing mechanism cannot resolve the industry's deeper problems. Clients and BPO providers need to develop genuine partnerships that balance commercial performance with long-term investment in people and customer outcomes. The Bigger Question John's central message is that customer experience should not be treated simply as an operational cost that needs to be minimised. Businesses need to reconsider what they measure, how they invest in their employees, and whether outsourcing relationships are genuinely designed to support their customers over the long term. The real measure of successful customer experience isn't how cheaply a company handles an interaction. It's whether the customer gets their problem solved and wants to come back. Connect with John Callachan John is Director of GoFusion, an advisory business helping companies translate strategy and operational transformation into measurable business outcomes. Find John on LinkedIn or visit go-fusion.co.uk to learn more. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-callachan-7376981/ The CX Files is hosted by Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan, exploring the people, businesses, and ideas shaping the future of customer experience and business process outsourcing.
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    35 分
  • Randy Arellano - AI Is Changing BPO Sales. Relationships Are More Important Than Ever - Ascent Growth Advisors

    Randy Arellano - AI Is Changing BPO Sales. Relationships Are More Important Than Ever - Ascent Growth Advisors
    2026/10/22

    CX Files Episode 436 – Randy Arellano, Founder, Ascent Growth Advisors, Dallas, Texas

    AI is changing how companies research and select BPO partners. Buyers can now compare suppliers, investigate locations, and explore solutions long before they speak to a salesperson. So what does this mean for the future of BPO sales?

    In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan introduce a conversation with Randy Arellano, founder of Ascent Growth Advisors and an experienced BPO sales leader.

    Randy argues that AI is raising the bar for sales professionals. Relationships and personal networks still matter, but they are no longer enough. Buyers need experienced advisers who can challenge assumptions, diagnose problems, understand technology, and recommend solutions that deliver genuine business outcomes.

    The discussion explores several important changes shaping the BPO sales team of the future:

    • AI-informed buyers: Why salespeople need to offer more than information buyers can already discover through ChatGPT or Claude.

    • Consultative selling: Why understanding the customer's real business problem is more valuable than simply offering contact centre capacity.

    • Trust and relationships: How experienced salespeople can challenge assumptions and offer advice that may not always lead to an immediate sale.

    • Better prospect qualification: Why ideal customer profiles and business trigger events matter more than building a large but poorly qualified pipeline.

    • Cross-functional sales teams: Why solutions, operations, pricing, legal, and implementation teams must share responsibility for winning and delivering complex BPO deals.

    • Sales and marketing alignment: How marketing teams can use insights from sales conversations to create evidence-based content that answers the questions buyers are actually asking.

    • The shift to outcomes: Why salespeople must understand AI, automation, and outcome-based commercial models rather than focusing on headcount and traditional pricing.

    Randy also explains why AI could make some previously uneconomic customer service decisions viable, including bringing high-value customer support back onshore.

    The central message is clear: AI may transform the early stages of BPO procurement, but the ability to diagnose problems, build trust, and bring together the right expertise will define the most successful sales teams.

    The sales team of the future will need to be more consultative, more technically fluent, and more closely integrated with the wider business than ever before.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/randyarellano/
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    32 分
  • Victor Manzanera - Scale Edge Group - Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing

    Victor Manzanera - Scale Edge Group - Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing
    2026/10/15
    CX Files Episode 435: Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing Guest: Victor Manzanera, Founder and Principal Analyst, Scale Edge Group – Oslo, Norway Everyone in the BPO industry is talking about outcome-based pricing, but how do we actually move away from charging for headcount and hours? And is the industry ready for such a fundamental change? In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan explore the challenges of traditional BPO contracts before Mark interviews Victor Manzanera, founder of Scale Edge Group. Victor has just published The Outcome-Based BPO Model, a 33-page report examining how BPO buyers and suppliers can gradually transition from traditional FTE pricing towards contracts that reward genuine business outcomes. Key discussion points include: Evolution, not revolution: Why outcome-based pricing requires a gradual transition rather than an overnight replacement of FTE contracts. Rethinking KPIs: Why traditional performance metrics often have little connection to the business outcomes clients actually want. Sharing the rewards: How gain-sharing agreements and meaningful bonuses can encourage BPOs to improve efficiency, customer retention, and revenue. The AI incentive problem: Why headcount-based contracts can discourage automation and how new commercial models could accelerate AI adoption. Beyond pricing: Why achieving better outcomes may require different agent skills, training, technology, and operating models. Practical next steps: How buyers can start changing their BPO relationship immediately, even without renegotiating their entire contract. Victor argues that the most important change is not simply how BPOs get paid, but how buyers and suppliers define success and work together to achieve it. The central message: Stop buying people and hours. Start building partnerships focused on business results. Victor's report, The Outcome-Based BPO Model, was published by Scale Edge Group on October 14, 2026, and is freely available through Scale Edge Group - link is below. --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-manzanera/ https://www.scaleedgegroup.com/ https://www.scaleedgegroup.com/outcome-based-bpo-model https://www.linkedin.com/posts/scale-edge-group_bpo-outsourcing-cx-activity-7516022738088640513-BHiE Summary & Overview The discussion examined a gradual shift from FTE pricing to outcome-based BPO relationships, including incentives and prerequisites for adoption. Hybrid Transition Victor argued that pricing and performance measurement can evolve separately: companies can keep FTE contracts while aligning KPIs and incentives to business outcomes.Buyers and BPOs need to agree on the company's actual objectives; excessive or conflicting operational KPIs can obscure results and limit BPO ownership. Incentives and Readiness Bonuses tied to outcomes such as efficiency, first-contact resolution, revenue, or reduced churn can reward BPOs for improvements and support AI adoption.Transaction pricing is most viable with reliable volume forecasts, handle-time data, and contractual volume protections. How can companies without these prerequisites create aligned incentives while retaining FTE pricing?
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    41 分
  • Peter Ryan - Ten Years of BPO: What Changed, What Didn't, and What Comes Next

    Peter Ryan - Ten Years of BPO: What Changed, What Didn't, and What Comes Next
    2026/10/08

    This week, the CX Files turns the tables on co-host Peter Ryan. Ryan Strategic Advisory has just celebrated its tenth anniversary, so Mark Hillary interviews Peter about what he has learned from a decade of advising BPOs, enterprise buyers, governments, and CX leaders around the world.

    Peter looks back at how the industry has changed since 2016 — from the growth of remote and hybrid work to automation, AI, employee experience, and the changing ways companies discover and select CX partners. He also explores the evolution of global delivery locations, including the continued strength of India, the Philippines, South Africa, Egypt, and Mexico, alongside the emergence of markets such as Colombia, Serbia, Kenya, Rwanda, and Ghana.

    The conversation also tackles one of the biggest challenges facing CX today: separating genuine structural change from industry hype. Peter reflects on earlier predictions around IVR, RPA, remote work, and now AI, arguing that technology continues to transform the industry — but the human element remains central.

    Finally, Peter shares some of the lessons he has learned from running an independent advisory business for ten years: the importance of visibility, relationships, investment, resilience, and being present in an industry that is still built around conversations, handshakes, and personal connections.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-ryan-montreal/

    https://ryanadvisory.com/

    https://ryanadvisory.com/2026/10/06/10-learnings-from-10-years-of-ryan-strategic-advisory/
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    24 分
  • Victor Botto - TP - Why Kenya Is Ready for the Global CX Stage

    Victor Botto - TP - Why Kenya Is Ready for the Global CX Stage
    2026/10/01
    In episode 433 of the CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Victor Botto, Vice President for Business Development for Sub-Saharan Africa at TP, about why Kenya deserves far more attention as a global CX and BPO location. Victor explains why Kenya's opportunity goes well beyond lower-cost customer service. They discuss the country's highly educated workforce, deep experience in fintech and tourism, its growing technology ecosystem, and the importance of an employee-first culture in building better customer experiences. The conversation also explores the bigger African opportunity. Could establishing CX operations in Kenya give global companies not only a new delivery location, but also valuable experience and insight into one of the world's fastest-growing consumer markets? Topics include: Kenya as an alternative global BPO hub, fintech and M-Pesa, tourism and hospitality expertise, the "Silicon Savannah" technology ecosystem, employee experience, talent development, and Africa's future consumer growth. ------ https://www.linkedin.com/in/victorbotto/ https://www.tp.com/ https://theservicecontinent.substack.com/ ------ Overview / Summary Kenya was presented as a high-value CX and BPO destination whose advantages extend beyond labor cost. Strategic Position Victor described Kenya as a diversification option for companies facing saturation, rising costs, attrition, and talent competition in established hubs.Kenya offers a GMT+3 time zone, C1 English proficiency, cultural familiarity with Western markets, and a BPO career path viewed as desirable by graduates. Sector Expertise Digital experience with M-Pesa supports fintech and digital-wallet service operations through lived understanding of payment issues.Tourism and hospitality experience supports empathetic, flexible customer service for airlines and travel companies.Nairobi's technology ecosystem includes engineering, cloud, automation, AI data operations, fintech, and software development capabilities. Open Questions How quickly can Kenya build market awareness, delivery capacity, specialized accreditation, and infrastructure to compete with mature hubs?Can companies use Kenyan operations as a platform for broader growth in African consumer markets through the Africa Continental Free Trade Area?
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    32 分
  • Brian Riback - CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year - Beyond AI Visibility: How Brands Build Trust

    Brian Riback - CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year - Beyond AI Visibility: How Brands Build Trust
    2026/09/24
    Brian Riback is the CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year. Brian is a strategic leader with over 20 years of experience as a CRM and retention specialist. He ias based in New Jersey, USA. In June 2026, Brian published a detailed article exploring how brands can build trust in the era of AI discoverability. The article was titled "How CMOs Build Brand Trust Across AI Search, Agents and Answer Engines." In this conversation with Mark Hillary, Brian describes his ideas around how to operationalise trust - a process he calls TrustOps after a paper by Andrew Frank from Gartner. --- For over two decades CMSWire, produced by Simpler Media Group, has been the world's leading community of customer experience professionals. Today the CMSWire community consists of over 5 million influential customer experience, customer service and digital experience leaders, the majority of whom are based in North America and employed by medium to large organizations. --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianriback/ https://www.cmswire.com/ https://www.cmswire.com/author/brian-riback/ https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/how-cmos-build-brand-trust-across-ai-search-agents-and-answer-engines/ https://www.gartner.com/en/experts/andrew-frank Summary: Outline AI Discoverability and Trust AI tools increasingly influence how buyers discover and evaluate B2B providers.Visibility alone is insufficient; companies must control the credibility and context surrounding their brand. Content and Websites Content should identify its author, publication timing, sources, and relevant questions.Websites should validate AI-generated recommendations with use cases, case studies, testimonials, trust indicators, and accessible human support.AI-generated content can assist production, but authority depends on original expertise and evidence rather than volume. Trust Operations A proposed trust-operations function would coordinate marketing, communications, PR, legal, IT, and cybersecurity.The group would create playbooks and manage risks affecting brand representation across AI systems. Measurement and Alignment Brian recommended emphasizing qualified leads, pipeline movement, conversion, and nurturing rather than impressions or unmeasurable awareness.Marketing and sales should share revenue accountability while maintaining clearly defined roles. Current Work Brian is developing Version Lab, a tool for creating audience-specific versions of ads and emails, and continuing his writing for CMSWire.
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    37 分
  • Jeton Aliu - Olymp BPO - Why Kosovo Is Emerging as a CX Hotspot

    Jeton Aliu - Olymp BPO - Why Kosovo Is Emerging as a CX Hotspot
    2026/09/17

    In this episode of the CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan look at the changing European nearshore landscape before Peter talks to Jeton Aliu, Founder and CEO of Olymp BPO in Pristina, Kosovo.

    Jeton explains why Kosovo is becoming an increasingly important CX and BPO delivery location. He discusses the rapid growth of the local outsourcing industry, the availability of a young and multilingual workforce, and Kosovo's particular strength in languages including German and English.


    The conversation also explores the growth of delivery beyond Pristina, government support for the industry, and the biggest challenge still facing Kosovo: building greater international awareness and trust as a serious European outsourcing destination.

    Mark and Peter also discuss how the traditional European nearshore model is changing, as countries once viewed primarily as outsourcing locations increasingly become consumer markets themselves — creating a much more complex European CX delivery landscape.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/jetonaliu8/

    http://olympbpo.com/

    https://kiesa.rks-gov.net/

    Summary:

    Kosovo was presented as a growing, multilingual European nearshore BPO destination with strong potential but limited global awareness.

    Industry Growth
    • The BPO sector has expanded significantly since the early 2010s, with approximately 20,000 professionals across more than 120 companies.
    • BPO and ITO reportedly generated more than $2.3 billion in 2025 and 2026, becoming a major contributor to economic growth and youth employment.
    • Pristina is the primary hub, while Prizren, Peja, Ferizaj, and Gjilan have growing delivery centers.
    Competitive Advantages
    • Kosovo offers English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, and other language capabilities.
    • German and English are especially competitive, supported by diaspora connections and multilingual education beginning in childhood.
    • The country is described as safe, accessible, cost-competitive, and supported by government grants for newly formed BPOs.
    Growth Challenges
    • How can Kosovo increase international market awareness and build trust with prospective buyers?
    • Yeton identified recognition and education about Kosovo's BPO capabilities as the main challenges to industry maturation.
    • KIESA, the Kosovo Investment and Enterprise Support Agency, was identified as a source of additional information.
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    17 分
  • Matt Fry - eClerx - Culture Is 50/50: Why Clients Can't Blame the BPO

    Matt Fry - eClerx - Culture Is 50/50: Why Clients Can't Blame the BPO
    2026/09/10

    In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Matt Fry, SVP for AI, CX and Digital Transformation at eClerx and publisher of The CX Marketplace, about why culture cannot simply be outsourced.

    Inspired by Matt's Substack article Culture Cannot Be Outsourced, the conversation explores why successful CX partnerships require shared responsibility between clients and BPO providers. They discuss culture during the RFP process, employee engagement and attrition, the importance of client involvement, and how relationships can move beyond SLAs and penalties toward shared ownership of the customer experience.

    Matt also explains why culture may be even more important as AI, automation and agentic technologies reshape customer service.

    -----

    Culture Cannot Be Outsourced

    https://thecxmarketplace.substack.com/p/culture-cannot-be-outsourced

    The CX Marketplace

    https://thecxmarketplace.substack.com/

    https://eclerx.com/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewefry/

    Summary:

    Matt explains why creating a successful BPO relationship requires a shared 50-50 responsibility for culture between the client and the service provider.

    Cultural Partnership

    Matt Fry argues that corporate culture in contact centers cannot be outsourced and must be a collaborative effort between the BPO and the client. While it is common to assume the BPO is solely responsible for maintaining a positive environment, Matt suggests that clients must actively participate to ensure deep engagement.

    • Clients should focus on transferring "why" something matters rather than just transferring technical processes or product knowledge.
    • Effective integration involves leadership from both sides engaging with the operational environment to build mutual purpose.
    • A lack of client engagement can lead to employees feeling like anonymous resources, especially as AI and automation make work more transactional.
    Strategic Procurement

    Matt notes that traditional RFP processes often fail to capture cultural compatibility because they focus on static values rather than dynamic behaviors. To find true partners instead of transactional vendors, companies must reframe their selection criteria.

    • Questions should focus on how organizations will solve problems together when performance falls short.
    • The goal is to assess whether both parties are willing to modify their operating models to support long-term collaboration after the contract is signed.
    Governance Evolution

    Transitioning from a vendor-client relationship to a partnership requires shifting governance away from pure metric monitoring toward shared outcomes. Matt highlights that relying solely on SLAs, targets, and penalties keeps a relationship stuck in a transactional state.

    • Meetings should move beyond discussing missed targets or service credits to address customer insights and avoidable demand.
    • Trust is built incrementally when a supplier identifies risks early and brings innovative solutions rather than just focusing on the scorecard.

    How can cost-sensitive sectors balance the expense of cultural integration with the high costs of attrition caused by poor culture?
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    22 分