Cheryl Paarwater is the Managing Director at Enerlytics & Call Lab BPO. She is based in Cape Town, South Africa.

Cheryl has championed CX in South Africa for many years and is a board member of BPESA - the trade promotion agency for business process service companies in South Africa.

In this conversation with Peter Ryan, Cheryl explores how BPO and CX has created many opportunities for employment in South Africa - and beyond - and this has created a very positive socio-economic ripple effect. People leaving informal jobs and entering contact centers pay tax, support their family, and help to support other businesses selling services to those working directly in BPOs.

As AI is gradually introduced in many CX processes, there is a fear in the industry that entry-level positions may no longer be staffed by humans. The most immediate effect is a reduction in the number of jobs created, but what are the wider effects of thinking that we can just replace people with bots?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheryl-paarwater/

https://call-lab.com/

SUMMARY:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the impact of artificial intelligence (AI) on customer experience (CX) jobs, particularly in South Africa. Cheryl Paarwater, CEO of Call Lab, highlights concerns about AI replacing human roles, which could exacerbate unemployment and social issues. Despite AI's potential to automate 10-15% of roles, Peter notes that many AI projects fail, citing a 42% failure rate in 2020. Cheryl emphasizes the need for AI to enhance human roles rather than replace them, suggesting AI could improve education and support high-value interactions. They stress the importance of a balanced approach to AI implementation in CX.

This is the final Covid flashback where CX Files has looked back at the early days of the 2020 pandemic throughout August 2025.

This interview was originally broadcast on May 15, 2020 - about a month into the pandemic and lockdowns.

At the time Kathy Juve was the EVP, Customer Experience Technology & Insights Division, at Concentrix. She is now EVP of Global Solutions - also at Concentrix.

Kathy is based in Orlando, Florida.

In this episode, Kathy describes how the previous three weeks created the digital transformation that might usually have taken three years... April 2020 was a time of huge change for CX.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathyjuve/

https://www.concentrix.com/

NEXT WEEK: CX Files returns to our regular programming...

SUMMER SPECIAL - COVID FLASHBACK

Covid-19 was five long years ago. In a series of short summer specials, CX Files is bringing you some memories of what was going on at a very chaotic time for the industry. During the early days of the pandemic, CX Files went from weekly to daily and captured many important observations on how the CX industry was coping across the world.

Dave Rizzo is the APAC President of TP. He is based in Singapore. Five years ago the company was known as Teleperformance and Dave was based in Manila, but essentially he was performing the same leadership role for TP in Asia.

Dave talked to Mark Hillary on March 31, 2020. This was about a week into the Covid lockdowns for most nations so Dave was working 24/7 at this time.

Many of these conversations feel historic. It's worth revisiting some of them just to remember the sense of chaos in the industry at this time and how the industry adapted and coped with the challenges of 2020 and 2021.

www.tp.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-rizzo-7037763/

SUMMER SPECIAL - COVID FLASHBACK

Covid-19 was five long years ago. In a series of short summer specials, CX Files is bringing you some memories of what was going on at a very chaotic time for the industry. During the early days of the pandemic, CX Files went from weekly to daily and captured many important observations on how the CX industry was coping across the world.

John Devlin is the Founder and CEO of Ascensos (acquired by Firstsource in 2024) - he is still in this position.

John talked to Mark Hillary on March 26, 2020. This was day one of the first Covid lockdown in the UK - the Prime Minister had urged everyone in the nation to stay at home on March 23rd... it was enforcable from March 26th. Companies with staff in offices had three days to figure out how to keep going and many businesses were not able to function at all.

Many of these conversations feel historic. It's worth revisiting some of them just to remember the sense of chaos in the industry at this time and how the industry adapted and coped with the challenges of 2020 and 2021.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-devlin-4731521/

https://www.ascensos.com/

https://www.firstsource.com/

Dave D'Arcy is the founder of Laughing Leadership. He is based in Tring, close to London in the UK.

Laughing Leadership was created to guide business leaders to build the environment to nurture and develop happy engaged employees. The solution is not in bean bags, slides, fruit on Friday or free tea and coffee. It is in culture. And culture is a byproduct of leadership style.

In this conversation with Peter Ryan, Dave talks about some of the 'groundhog day' issues he keeps reading about and seeing in CX. Why do we keep reading about the same CX issues over and over again? Why is the CX business news from years ago just about the same as today? Why do we always see the hype cycle with new technologies - such as AI?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemdarcy/

https://www.davedarcy.co.uk/

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qbH1R9yDdr4

CX FILES IS TAKING A BREAK FOR THE REST OF AUGUST - WE ARE BACK ON SEPTEMBER 4! Keep tuning in as we plan to repeat some clips from this time exactly five years ago during the Covid pandemic - how did the CX industry cope? CX Files switched to almost daily interviews during the early part of the pandemic, so we will clip a few of the best interviews to share with you again this August... see you again in September!

SUMMARY:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the final episode of the CX Files podcast before taking a break in August. They introduce Dave D'Arcy, founder of Laughing Leadership, who focuses on leadership and employee engagement. D'Arcy critiques common CX industry issues, such as outcome-based pricing models, lack of investment in training, and the overemphasis on impact sourcing. He argues that AI has not lived up to its hype and has led to employee disengagement. D'Arcy emphasizes the need for businesses to invest in their employees and align strategies with clear business objectives.

Amanda Quinn is the Founder and Principal of Quinn Growth Advisors.

She is based in Raleigh, North Carolina, USA.

In this conversation with Peter Ryan, Amanda talks about her work advising BPOs on how to build growth and develop a sales pipeline. Amanda advises focusing on deep expertise and specialization, rather than claiming to offer every single service and excelling at none of them.

How can BPOs compete and leverage technology to improve what they offer to clients?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandaquinnmalach/

https://quinngrowthadvisors.com/

SUMMARY:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the challenges faced by BPOs (Business Process Outsourcing) in the market, emphasizing the need for specialization over generalism. They highlight the inefficiencies of BPOs claiming to offer a wide range of services without excelling in any. Amanda Quinn, founder of Quinn Growth Advisors, is introduced as a guest who advocates for BPOs to focus on niche markets and develop deep expertise. Quinn advises BPOs to identify their strengths through internal stakeholder meetings and client feedback, and to expand by adding related services or industries. She also stresses the importance of charging for value-added services and leveraging technology to enhance service delivery.

Mike Ortegon is a customer solutions director at Yoummday. He is an American based in London and he has a focus on the global travel industry - with a long track record of leadership roles in travel companies.

Mark Hillary called Mike to talk about travel. How has it recovered since the pandemic? What trends are travel companies seeing that are new for the 2020s? Are travel companies becoming more proactive in their approach to the customer experience? Why are some people around the world protesting that there is too much tourism now?

Mike talked about all these issues and explored how the customer experience is integral to ensuring that customers enjoy their travel and also want to remain loyal to the hotel/airline/travel agency they are using...

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeortegon/

https://www.yoummday.com/

SUMMARY

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving travel industry with Mike Ortegon, a customer solutions director at Yoummday. They explore the impact of anti-tourism protests, the rise of multi-generational travel, and the shift from reactive to proactive customer service. Ortegon highlights the importance of automation, local experiences, and inclusivity, noting that 50% of travelers now take more than one trip annually. He also emphasizes the need for travel companies to balance technology with human touch, especially for Gen Z, and to address accessibility challenges for travelers with mobility issues. The conversation underscores the industry's focus on enhancing customer experiences and adapting to changing travel behaviors.

Jon Florence is the SVP of Industry Solutions at Xima Software. He is based in South Jordan, Utah.

Xima is a contact center software company that is focused on AI solutions.

Peter Ryan called Jon to discuss AI in CX. Beyond the hype, how can companies managing their own CX and BPOs all benefit from the use of AI in the contact center? What are the genuine and practical use cases that move the dial and which claims are just hype?

What can you really do with AI today?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-florence-67019a79/

https://ximasoftware.com/

SUMMARY:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan introduce Jon Florence, SVP of Industry Solutions at Xima Software. Jon explains his role in integrating AI into customer experience solutions. They delve into the hype cycle of AI, comparing it to the VoIP boom, and emphasize the importance of understanding business needs before implementing AI. Jon advises starting with simple AI tools like speech analytics and messaging bots, and stresses the need for certified integrations. He also highlights the importance of testing AI capabilities and ensuring long-term vendor stability to avoid future consolidation issues.