Nick Jiwa is the founder and president of CustomerServ. He is based in Houston, Texas, USA.

In this episode Nick talks to Peter Ryan about the importance of people in CX - in particular in BPOs. He asks why people have always been central to the customer experience, but now it sounds like everyone is just focused on AI and automation?

It's time to refocus on people and culture because this is how brands connect with customers and this leads to the success they need - extra revenue, loyalty, retention etc...

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjiwa/

https://www.customerserv.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/call-center-still-people-business-nick-jiwa-sn5lf/

Summary:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the importance of human interaction in customer experience (CX) with Nick Jiwa, founder of CustomerServ. Jiwa emphasizes that despite technological advancements, CX remains a people-centric industry. He criticizes large BPOs for prioritizing tech over people, noting that many have an identity crisis. Jiwa highlights the resilience of the call center industry, projecting its growth from $300 billion to $500 billion by 2030. He argues that AI will enhance, not replace, human roles, particularly in emotional and complex interactions. The conversation underscores the need for a refocus on people, culture, and leadership in CX.

Leigh Hopwood is CEO of the CCMA (Contact Centre Management Association) and Chair of the European Customer Contact Alliance. She is based in London, UK.

Peter Ryan called Leigh to talk about the European Contact Center and Customer Service Awards (ECCCSAs), which celebrate their 25th anniversary on November 25th, 2025.

It sounds like an Iron Maiden song. On the 25th of November in the year 2025 the ECCCSAs will be 25...

Leigh talks about the judging process and the value of the awards to the growth of the wider industry in addition to talking about the logistics of arranging such a large event - the award ceremony itself features over 1,200 attendees from 44 different countries.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leighhopwood/

https://www.ccma.org.uk/

https://ecccsa.com/

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Summary:

Leigh Hopwood joins the pod to talk about the European Contact Center and Customer Service Awards, celebrating its 25th anniversary on November 25, 2025. The awards, which attract over 1,200 attendees from 44 countries, are judged by industry experts and feature rigorous criteria. Leigh emphasizes the importance of the judging process and the event's role in fostering industry growth and learning. The conversation also touches on the logistics of organizing such a large event and the significance of the awards in recognizing excellence in customer service.

Gerry Brown is known as the customer lifeguard. His ambition is to save the world from poor customer service.

Gerry is Canadian and based in the south of the UK.

Gerry has written a book titled 'When a customer wins, nobody loses.' He has a podcast and he is a regular speaker and adviser, regularly hosting CX workshops.

Mark called Gerry to ask about his book and the post-pandemic CX environment. In particular how can BPOs get more closely aligned with the needs of customers when AI is changing the entire industry?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerryhbrown/

https://thecustomerlifeguard.co.uk/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Customer-Wins-Nobody-Loses-ebook/dp/B07BFC83MZ/

Summary :

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) with guest Gerry Brown, an independent consultant and author of "When a Customer Wins, Nobody Loses." They explore the shift from traditional customer service to more complex, multi-channel environments, including the rise of AI and automation. Brown highlights the importance of aligning customer needs with BPO services, noting that many organizations still handle customer service in-house. He emphasizes the need for BPOs to offer comprehensive solutions and the growing use of AI for efficiency and cost savings. The conversation also touches on the impact of the pandemic on remote work and the ongoing challenge of integrating legacy systems.

Paul O'Hara is the Executive Vice President of Business Development at TP EMEA. He is based in the Tyneside area of North-East England.

Paul recently published an article on Customer Think magazine titled "AI Won't End BPO - It'll Supercharge It."

Mark called Paul to ask Paul about the article. What was Paul trying to say? How does he believe that AI and human-focused customer service can be blended? How can smarter more value-driven CX be planned using AI?

Paul outlined many of these ideas in his article, but Mark questioned him further on the reasons he felt the need to talk about AI in this way. Mark even mentioned this conversation with Paul in a SubStack article he published earlier this week.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauloharateleperformance/

https://customerthink.com/ai-wont-end-bpo-itll-supercharge-it/

https://www.tp.com/

https://markhillarysp.substack.com/p/ai-in-customer-service-isnt-about

Summary:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the impact of AI on Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) with Paul O'Hara, EVP for Business Development at Teleperformance (TP). O'Hara argues that AI will enhance, rather than replace, BPO services. He emphasizes the importance of blending AI with human expertise to deliver smarter, scalable, and value-driven customer experiences. O'Hara highlights that BPOs, with their operational backbone and regulatory compliance, are better positioned to design and scale CX solutions. He predicts continued growth in the BPO industry, driven by automation and ethical outsourcing, and stresses the need for performance-based models over traditional metrics.

Elona Ymeri is the service delivery manager at Assist Digital. She is based in Tirana, Albania.

Elona spoke to Mark Hillary about the role of smaller BPO destinations. What can they offer that is harder to find from the big locations? Is the continued influence of AI and other automation technology reducing the need to consider working in locations where large numbers of agents can be found?

Elona talked about Albania within this context, but also explored beyond Albania alone to consider other locations in Europe that might have an interesting and innovative new approach to BPO.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/elonaymeri/

https://assistdigital.com/

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Summary:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan introduce an interview with Elona Ymeri, the service delivery leader at Assist Digital in Tirana, Albania. Alona highlights Albania's mature BPO sector, employing nearly 30,000 people, and its strategic position as a nearshore option for European companies. She emphasizes Albania's cultural alignment, linguistic skills, and the country's investment in AI and digital transformation. Alona also discusses the shift towards intelligent operations, combining human talent with technology, and the importance of compliance and strategic partnerships in the future of BPO.

Joanne Morrison is the founder of Outmarket. She is based in Toronto, Canada.

Outmarket is a specialist marketing agency that is focused on BPO and CX companies.

Telling potential customers about your services has always been important, but as BPO gets more complex, more international, and AI changes how marketing can function, it is more important than ever to get great advice.

Peter Ryan called Joanne to talk about these changes and her advice for marketing in CX in the 2020s.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-morrison-52299711/

https://www.outmarketbpo.com/

SUMMARY:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the challenges and mistakes in BPO marketing with Joanne Morrison, founder of Outmarket. Joanne highlights underinvestment in marketing, with typical BPO budgets being a fraction of the 2-8% recommended for B2B services. She emphasizes the importance of diversifying marketing efforts and leveraging AI beyond content creation. Joanne also stresses the need for effective post-event follow-up and risk-taking to stand out in a competitive market. She advises using AI for backend tasks like coding and research to improve efficiency and differentiation.

Miguel Familia is the CEO and co-founder of Wise BPO. He is based between the Dominican Republic and St. Petersburg, Florida, USA.

Miguel has a long history in CX, but one year ago he decided to create a new BPO brand - serving clients from the Dominican Republic.

Peter called Miguel to learn about his story of creating a new CX brand, his background in this industry, the advantages of the DR, and his vision for the future of CX.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/miguel-familia-b0b37812/

https://wisebp.com/

SUMMARY:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan introduce Miguel Familia, CEO and co-founder of Wise BPO in the Dominican Republic. Miguel shares his journey from starting in BPO at 17 to establishing Wise BPO, emphasizing the importance of people over technology in customer service. He highlights the challenges of securing initial business deals and the success of engaging with new prospects. Miguel advises budding entrepreneurs to be genuine in their interactions.

This week we have a group of CX and BPO experts who recently visited Georgia. This nation of 3.6m people is positioned on the Black Sea, at the intersection of Europe and Asia, and is working hard to position itself as an attractive destination for CX and BPO sourcing.

Peter Ryan talked to people who travelled with him to visit Georgia this year to explore questions such as the ease of doing business there, the opportunity for multilingual CX, and how Georgia is attracting more digital and high-tech talent.

Featured in the discussion:

Elona Ymeri

Service Delivery Manager, Assist Digital

Tirana, Albania

https://www.linkedin.com/in/elonaymeri/

Traci Freeman

Managing Member, Believe Consulting

Johannesburg, South Africa

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracifreeman/

Jasen Shirley

Head of Customer Service and Sales, North America/Canada, SIXT

Riverview, Florida, US

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasen-shirley-688a651b8/

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https://www.investingeorgia.org/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/enterprisegeorgia/

https://www.enterprisegeorgia.gov.ge/

SUMMARY:

Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss a recent visit to Georgia sponsored by Enterprise Georgia, highlighting the country's potential as a CX and BPO destination. The trip involved 15 stakeholders, including Jason Shirley, Ilona, and Tracy Freeman, who all shared their impressions in the discussion. Key points include Georgia's cultural alignment with the West, fast internet, co-working spaces, and ease of business setup. The Government Services Center was praised for its efficiency and customer service. The discussion also touched on Georgia's multilingual workforce, advanced skills, and the potential for complex services. Comparisons with Jamaica and other established BPO destinations were made, emphasizing Georgia's readiness for higher-value outsourcing.