Dr. Nick Tiller is an exercise physiologist, researcher, author, and longtime endurance athlete with a strong interest in one question: how do we separate what actually works from what just sounds convincing?

Scott and Nick dig into supplements, recovery tools, wellness influencers, social media, and the challenge of making good decisions in a health and fitness world full of conflicting information. They also talk about ultrarunning, including why Nick believes the training can be beneficial while repeatedly racing for 12, 24, or 48 hours places a very different kind of stress on the body.

They get into recovery too: massage guns, compression boots, cold plunges, and similar tools may help you feel better, but true recovery still comes down to sleep, food, rest, and time.

The bigger theme is critical thinking. Learning how to make better decisions instead of chasing every new supplement, hack, or wellness claim that comes along.

• 00:00 – Meet Dr. Nick Tiller
• 04:00 – Science, skepticism and health misinformation
• 15:30 – Influencers, sponsorships and conflicts of interest
• 21:00 – Nick's path into ultrarunning
• 25:55 – Is ultrarunning actually good for you?
• 29:55 – Recovery, training and what runners get wrong
• 39:55 – What everyday runners should learn from elites
• 45:35 – The Health and Wellness Lie
• 53:25 – Marathon des Sables and being present

Connect with Nick

Website: https://www.nbtiller.com
Instagram: @nb.tiller
X: @NBTiller

The Health and Wellness Lie
The Skeptic's Guide to Sports Science

Steve Durbin has spent more than 20 years creating races, welcoming runners, solving problems behind the scenes, and building events that people return to year after year.

He started Land Between the Lakes in 2004, when there was only one other active ultra in Kentucky. What began with 90 runners grew into an event Steve describes as a "family reunion" - a philosophy that has carried through his years as a race director.

Scott and Steve talk about what runners rarely see behind the scenes, why volunteers are an RD's most important resource, and why reading the pre-race instructions really does matter.

They also dig into Steve's long friendship with Laz, his six attempts at the Barkley Marathons, the creation of the Barkley Fall Classic, and what makes that course so brutally difficult.

Then there's Tunnel Hill. Steve intentionally designed it as the opposite of the "hardest race" trend. A fast, accessible course where runners could see what they were capable of over 50 or 100 miles. The result became a destination for first-timers and record chasers alike, with multiple world records set on the course.

Through all the races and records, Steve keeps coming back to the people - the runners, volunteers, friendships, and memories that have made the sport such a big part of his life.

• 00:00 – Meet Steve Durbin
• 01:35 – Starting Land Between the Lakes4
• 05:45 – Building races people come back to
• 08:45 – Steve's own running story
• 15:35 – Twenty years of race directing
• 22:35 – What runners don't see behind the scenes
• 26:45 – Barkley Fall Classic and working with Laz
• 41:20 – Steve's own Barkley experiences
• 44:40 – Why Tunnel Hill was built to be fast
• 48:20 – The people and adventures ultrarunning brought into Steve's life

Blake Nations used to joke that he'd only run if it was raining and he needed to get to his car. A couple of years later, he's finished his first ultra and is training for the Never Summer 100K.

In this conversation, Scott and Blake explore the crossover between ultrarunning, backcountry hunting, and learning how to stay in the fight when things get uncomfortable.

Blake shares how moving to Colorado and getting humbled in the mountains changed the way he thought about fitness, why running became a tool for becoming a better hunter, and how gradually pushing his distance helped him redefine what "far" meant.

They also talk about Blake's first 50K, the fueling mistake that turned his final miles into a GI survival exercise, preparing for the jump to 100K, balancing big endurance goals with hunting season, and why some of the most valuable lessons happen long before the finish line.

At the heart of the conversation is a simple idea - sometimes the real win is learning not to negotiate with the voice telling you to quit.

Connect with Blake

Instagram: Blake Nations
Nations Prime Ranch: Nations Prime Ranch

Neal Palles knows the mental side of endurance sport from a few different angles. He's an ultrarunning coach, licensed clinical social worker, Certified Mental Performance Consultant, longtime runner, and former Outward Bound instructor. neal-palles

In this conversation, Scott and Neal dig into what mental performance actually looks like for ultrarunners especially when the race stops going according to plan.

They talk about learning through failure, why outcome goals can sometimes get in the way of execution, staying present when you're deep into an ultra, and how to recognize when your thoughts are starting to push you around.

Neal also gets into imposter phenomenon, comparison on social media, and the idea that you don't necessarily need to eliminate negative thoughts. Instead, you can learn to notice them, create some space from them, and get back to the next thing you can control. neal-palles

And yes, they also settle an important ultra question: Coke or Tailwind at mile 80.

• 00:00 – Meet Neal Palles
• 02:00 – From Outward Bound to ultrarunning
• 10:00 – Learning through failure
• 13:00 – What mental performance actually means
• 20:30 – When fitness and race execution don't match
• 25:20 – Be present, open up and do what matters
• 30:45 – Imposter phenomenon in ultrarunning
• 32:45 – What to do when your brain tells you to quit
• 34:40 – Social media and comparison
• 37:00 – Quick hitters and favorite races

Instagram: @the.trail.mindset and @nealpalles
Website: thetrailmindset.com
Coaching: trainright.com/coaches/neal-palles

Neal will be offering a Four Session Program called Mental Skills for Ultra in the fall or early winter.

Tim Gorichanaz didn't grow up athletic. His path into running started with a family 5K, moved quickly into marathons, and eventually led to ultrarunning and a nearly decade-long pursuit of Western States.

In this conversation, Scott and Tim talk about that journey - from Tim's first 50K in a Wisconsin blizzard to finally earning his spot at Western States, only to spend months injured during the build-up.

Tim shares what it was like to fight cutoffs all day, finish Western States in the Golden Hour, and experience the emotional intensity of finally reaching a goal he'd been chasing for years.

They also dig into something that doesn't get talked about nearly enough, post-race blues. Tim explains why finishing a huge goal can feel like losing an entire world you built your life around and why simply signing up for another race may not be the answer.

Along the way they talk nutrition, minimalist running, longevity in the sport, Tim's recent 130-mile Ring of Fire finish in Wales, and his upcoming ultra-running novel.

• 00:00 – Meet Tim Gorichanaz
• 04:40 – From couch potato to ultrarunner
• 09:20 – Nutrition, recovery and minimalist running
• 22:40 – The long road to Western States
• 28:15 – Finishing in the Golden Hour
• 31:55 – Post-race blues and what comes next
• 39:10 – Ring of Fire: 130 miles around Anglesey
• 45:30 – Writing The Pennsylvania Death Race

Instagram: @timgorichanaz

Website: timgorichanaz.com

Finishing last isn't the same as failing. Ultrarunner and race director Mandy Hansel shares what her DFL finishes have taught her about courage, cutoffs, and creating races where every participant feels welcome.

At the back of the pack, the aid stations may be picked over, the course markers may be coming down, and long stretches of the race may be spent entirely alone. Mandy has experienced all of it, from having a sweeper push her out of an aid station to being cut halfway through a race she had trained hard to finish.

Those experiences helped shape the kind of race director she wanted to become. Mandy, co-founder of Storm Sporting Events, joins Scott to talk about the mental strength required at the back of the pack, the fear of finishing last, and why a DFL finisher can deserve the same celebration as the person who came in first.

They also explore fixed-time events as an approachable way to take on something big, what race directors can do to create a more inclusive experience, and how Storm Sporting Events uses its races to support youth mental health in southeastern Minnesota.

• (00:00) Meet Mandy Hansel and the meaning of DFL
• (01:51) From road running to Mandy's first ultra
• (04:24) How Storm Sporting Events began
• (06:52) What finishing DFL taught Mandy
• (08:12) Race cutoffs and choosing the right event
• (10:12) Keeping the finish line up for every runner
• (12:37) What runners experience at the back of the pack
• (14:45) Chasing cutoffs and dealing with imposter syndrome
• (15:59) The fear of finishing last
• (16:29) Why Storm gives an award to its DFL finisher
• (19:35) Storm the Day and the appeal of fixed-time events
• (22:01) Turning race registrations into support for youth mental health
• (24:23) Mandy's encouragement to runners who are afraid to try

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/girl_out_doing_what_she_loves/

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/mandyl.hansel/

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/thestormtrs/

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/thestormtrailraceseries/

Website:
https://www.stormsportingevents.org/

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/stormsportingevents/

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/StormSportingEvents/

How fast should you actually be moving at mile 20, 50 or 80 of an ultra?

Danny Murphy is an ultrarunner, engineer and the founder of UltraPacer, a race-planning tool designed to account for the things that make trail racing complicated including elevation, terrain, altitude, heat, fatigue and even darkness.

Scott and Danny talk about how UltraPacer started as a spreadsheet Danny built while preparing for his first 100K, why evenly pacing an ultramarathon usually isn't realistic, and how runners can use pacing data without becoming completely tied to a spreadsheet on race day.

They also dig into race-day strategy, setting realistic goals, using training runs to test a race plan, and why a good pacing plan may be just as useful for your crew as it is for you.

• 00:00 – Meet Danny Murphy and the story behind UltraPacer
• 02:00 – Modeling elevation, terrain, heat, altitude and fatigue
• 05:00 – How the pacing models were built
• 07:45 – Why ultrarunners slow down
• 09:30 – Elite pacing vs. everyday runners
• 10:20 – Using your training to set realistic race goals
• 13:00 – When a pacing plan is too aggressive
• 15:30 – How to actually use a pacing plan on race day
• 17:00 – How UltraPacer helps crews
• 18:15 – When to adjust your race-day goal
• 22:15 – Building and improving UltraPacer
• 25:00 – What's coming next
• 27:00 – How first-time ultrarunners can use UltraPacer
• 30:45 – UltraPacer tools for coaches
• 32:15 – Ultra chores?
• 33:00 – Where to find UltraPacer

Website: https://ultrapacer.com
Instagram: @ultrapacer
Facebook: ultrapacer

UltraPacer helps runners create race plans based on the actual demands of a course rather than relying on one average pace. Runners can account for variables including grade, terrain, altitude, heat, fatigue and darkness, then use those estimates to better understand what race day may look like.

The majority of UltraPacer's features are available for free, and runners can use existing courses or upload their own GPX file to start building a plan.

Hardrock 100 puts just 146 runners into one of the most remote and demanding mountain races in ultrarunning. Supporting them requires approximately 650 volunteers, specialized safety sweepers, hike-in aid stations, four-wheel-drive transportation and nearly a full year of planning.

Bill Schum, Hardrock's volunteer coordinator and an aid-station captain, takes Scott behind the scenes of the legendary 100-mile race through Colorado's San Juan Mountains.

Bill explains how volunteers support runners across a 48-hour event with roughly 33,000 feet of climbing. Some carry supplies into remote aid stations. Others spend two nights in the mountains, clear the course, manage traffic, provide medical support, or follow the final runners across passes above 13,000 feet.

He also shares some unforgettable moments from the course: volunteers searching for a missing pacer, a runner receiving the shoelace directly from a volunteer's shoe, a surprise bear at an aid station, and the wildfire smoke that kept Bill awake for 64 consecutive hours.

Along the way, Bill reveals what the back of the pack experiences at Hardrock, how technology has changed remote aid-station operations, and why every runner should expect the race to be harder and much slower than imagined.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction to Bill Schum and the Hard Rock 100
• 01:05 Bill's background and how he got involved in ultramarathons
• 02:13 Overview of the Hard Rock 100 race
• 03:43 Starting race planning and volunteer recruitment
• 05:14 Details of aid station setup and logistics
• 07:59 Managing remote aid stations and safety sweepers
• 14:07 Memorable wildlife encounters during the race
• 19:17 The most rewarding parts of the race experience
• 21:49 Impact of technology on race management
• 24:26 Race week sleep schedule and challenges
• 27:10 Advice for future Hard Rock runners
• 28:46 Closing thoughts and encouragement to spectate or volunteer

Official Hardrock 100 website:
https://hardrock100.com/

Hardrock volunteer information:
https://hardrock100.com/hardrock-volunteers.php

Course description and safety information:
https://hardrock100.com/hardrock-course.php