Dr. Nick Tiller is an exercise physiologist, researcher, author, and longtime endurance athlete with a strong interest in one question: how do we separate what actually works from what just sounds convincing?

Scott and Nick dig into supplements, recovery tools, wellness influencers, social media, and the challenge of making good decisions in a health and fitness world full of conflicting information. They also talk about ultrarunning, including why Nick believes the training can be beneficial while repeatedly racing for 12, 24, or 48 hours places a very different kind of stress on the body.

They get into recovery too: massage guns, compression boots, cold plunges, and similar tools may help you feel better, but true recovery still comes down to sleep, food, rest, and time.

The bigger theme is critical thinking. Learning how to make better decisions instead of chasing every new supplement, hack, or wellness claim that comes along.

• 00:00 – Meet Dr. Nick Tiller
• 04:00 – Science, skepticism and health misinformation
• 15:30 – Influencers, sponsorships and conflicts of interest
• 21:00 – Nick's path into ultrarunning
• 25:55 – Is ultrarunning actually good for you?
• 29:55 – Recovery, training and what runners get wrong
• 39:55 – What everyday runners should learn from elites
• 45:35 – The Health and Wellness Lie
• 53:25 – Marathon des Sables and being present

Connect with Nick

Website: https://www.nbtiller.com
Instagram: @nb.tiller
X: @NBTiller

The Health and Wellness Lie
The Skeptic's Guide to Sports Science

Steve Durbin has spent more than 20 years creating races, welcoming runners, solving problems behind the scenes, and building events that people return to year after year.

He started Land Between the Lakes in 2004, when there was only one other active ultra in Kentucky. What began with 90 runners grew into an event Steve describes as a "family reunion" - a philosophy that has carried through his years as a race director.

Scott and Steve talk about what runners rarely see behind the scenes, why volunteers are an RD's most important resource, and why reading the pre-race instructions really does matter.

They also dig into Steve's long friendship with Laz, his six attempts at the Barkley Marathons, the creation of the Barkley Fall Classic, and what makes that course so brutally difficult.

Then there's Tunnel Hill. Steve intentionally designed it as the opposite of the "hardest race" trend. A fast, accessible course where runners could see what they were capable of over 50 or 100 miles. The result became a destination for first-timers and record chasers alike, with multiple world records set on the course.

Through all the races and records, Steve keeps coming back to the people - the runners, volunteers, friendships, and memories that have made the sport such a big part of his life.

• 00:00 – Meet Steve Durbin
• 01:35 – Starting Land Between the Lakes4
• 05:45 – Building races people come back to
• 08:45 – Steve's own running story
• 15:35 – Twenty years of race directing
• 22:35 – What runners don't see behind the scenes
• 26:45 – Barkley Fall Classic and working with Laz
• 41:20 – Steve's own Barkley experiences
• 44:40 – Why Tunnel Hill was built to be fast
• 48:20 – The people and adventures ultrarunning brought into Steve's life

Blake Nations used to joke that he'd only run if it was raining and he needed to get to his car. A couple of years later, he's finished his first ultra and is training for the Never Summer 100K.

In this conversation, Scott and Blake explore the crossover between ultrarunning, backcountry hunting, and learning how to stay in the fight when things get uncomfortable.

Blake shares how moving to Colorado and getting humbled in the mountains changed the way he thought about fitness, why running became a tool for becoming a better hunter, and how gradually pushing his distance helped him redefine what "far" meant.

They also talk about Blake's first 50K, the fueling mistake that turned his final miles into a GI survival exercise, preparing for the jump to 100K, balancing big endurance goals with hunting season, and why some of the most valuable lessons happen long before the finish line.

At the heart of the conversation is a simple idea - sometimes the real win is learning not to negotiate with the voice telling you to quit.

Connect with Blake

Instagram: Blake Nations
Nations Prime Ranch: Nations Prime Ranch