Bill Reel converted to the LDS Church at 17, became a bishop at 29, and started a podcast while still bishop to defend the faith. He was, by every measure the church uses, very good at his religion. The research he did to help people stay is what took him out, and in 2018 the church excommunicated him for apostasy. Today he runs Mormon Discussion Inc., a nonprofit network of podcasts, and works as a trauma-informed coach for people leaving high-demand religion.

Josh came in expecting Bill to turn the premise of the show on its head, and he does. Bill says you can be a really good Mormon without being a good human being, and that for years he was the first and not the second. They talk about a church run on appearances, the rule that it is wrong to criticize leaders even when the criticism is true, the documentary history that ended his faith, what happened to his family, and why he doesn't miss being certain.

Where they land: Bill no longer believes in a personal God, but he loves the big questions and is sure of a few things it isn't. His advice for anyone, believer or doubter, is to watch for dogma and to go with the most rational answer until new information comes along.

About Bill Reel: Bill Reel is the founder and executive director of Mormon Discussion Inc., a nonprofit focused on examining Mormonism, supporting faith transitions, and helping people rebuild meaningful lives after religious deconstruction. He is a longtime podcaster, public commentator, and certified somatic-informed trauma coach whose work explores religion, psychology, institutional accountability, and healing from high-demand systems.

Mormon Discussion Inc.: https://mormondiscussions.org/
YouTube: Mormon Discussion Inc.: https://www.youtube.com/c/MormonDiscussionsInc

• (00:00:00) - Intro
• (00:00:36) - Turning the show's premise on its head
• (00:01:06) - A non-religious kid falls for Mormonism at 17
• (00:03:32) - Bishop at 29
• (00:04:50) - Reading the critics before baptism
• (00:08:25) - How Mormonism differs from Christianity
• (00:13:45) - Married young, four kids
• (00:15:31) - Trust your feelings, not the facts
• (00:19:47) - Good at the religion, bad at being human
• (00:25:09) - A church about appearances
• (00:29:24) - Three heavens and exaltation
• (00:32:26) - What the gospel looks like on Sunday
• (00:37:00) - Wrong to criticize leaders, even if it's true
• (00:39:59) - A sitting bishop starts a podcast
• (00:43:28) - Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire, and excommunication
• (00:44:22) - When the harm can't be blamed on God
• (00:49:17) - His family left first
• (00:51:58) - Mixed-faith marriages
• (00:53:51) - The exodus from the church
• (00:56:29) - Documents versus faith
• (01:00:36) - Life after Mormonism
• (01:03:57) - Does he still believe in God?
• (01:07:00) - Morality without religion
• (01:13:22) - Can most people handle freedom?
• (01:17:11) - Helping people after deconstruction
• (01:19:25) - One thing to do for 30 days
• (01:24:12) - Where to find Bill

Justin McSweeny was raised Catholic, was refused his First Communion as a boy because his parents were divorced, and walked away from church at 15. A health crisis at 41 sent him back to meditation and then deep into philosophy. Today he calls himself an ignostic, a word coined by Rabbi Sherwin Wine: the question "does God exist?" can't be answered until someone says what "God" means. He holds his beliefs loosely on purpose, and he runs the IdeaCast interview series and illuminelife.org.

Josh and Justin talk about why suspending judgment brings peace, whether a person living a steady life needs morality at all, a $20,000 weekend in Vegas, the story of Eden as a fall into self-awareness rather than sin, and why "authentic" is a construction too. Josh pushes where they differ: whether greatness requires obsession, whether life without an afterlife has a purpose, and whether we can judge people like Tom Brady for chasing theirs.

They land on social media, AI, and a generation looking backward for a future it can't see. Justin closes with three keys to practice for the next 30 days: ritual, dialectic and disruption.

About Justin McSweeny: Justin McSweeny lives in Florida with his wife and a couple of itinerant cats, and works as a plant inspector. He hosts the IdeaCast interview series on YouTube and Spotify and runs illuminelife.org, a free virtual workshop for personal inquiry and development.

illuminelife.org: https://www.illuminelife.org/
IdeaCast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ideacastilluminate

• (00:00:00) - Intro
• (00:00:33) - Where Justin is coming from
• (00:01:22) - A refused Communion, and out of church at 15
• (00:05:44) - A health crisis at 41
• (00:07:41) - Suspending judgment: epoché leads to ataraxia
• (00:10:07) - Apophasis and ignosticism
• (00:14:21) - Okay with dying
• (00:20:12) - Purpose without an afterlife
• (00:24:14) - Amoral, not immoral
• (00:28:27) - Morality as a guardrail: Vegas and $20,000
• (00:34:19) - Good and evil, and the Lucifer Principle
• (00:36:52) - Belief is a tool, and Eden as self-awareness
• (00:39:43) - God as the fellow sufferer
• (00:43:12) - Every belief is a chain
• (00:46:07) - Obsession vs detachment
• (00:59:08) - Tom Brady and the identity trap
• (01:02:50) - Sincere, not authentic
• (01:04:46) - Social media and simulacra
• (01:17:39) - Phones, nature, and religions that won't change
• (01:22:22) - Predictive processing and a new Reformation
• (01:30:06) - Moloch, nostalgia and AI
• (01:35:51) - Reading Jesus differently
• (01:45:46) - Hauntology and the lost future
• (01:51:28) - 30 days: ritual, dialectic, disruption

Father Augustine Wetta has been a Benedictine monk at Saint Louis Abbey for 30 years. He teaches high school, coaches rugby, turns the Psalms into rap, and wrote Humility Rules, which has sold over 100,000 copies. He met his first monk on a bus in Rome while fending off a pickpocket, and he once told his abbot he was a terrible monk. The abbot agreed.

Josh and Father Augustine talk about going all in on a faith when your vows leave no exit: Saint Benedict's way to end an argument, why love can grow out of commitment, and why you will marry the wrong person. Then they disagree about AI. Josh builds with it every day and sees a crisis of purpose coming fast. Father Augustine uses it to write rap songs, doubts anyone can predict the future, and says no machine can say Mass or become flesh.

They land on the practical: shame, honor and virtue signaling, humility as truthful self-knowledge, why the closer you get to God the smaller you feel, and one thing anyone can try for the next 30 days.

About Father Augustine Wetta: Father Augustine Wetta is a monk of Saint Louis Abbey in Saint Louis, Missouri, where he teaches high school and coaches rugby. He has degrees from Oxford University, Rice University, and Middlebury College. Father Augustine grew up on a tropical island, where he learned to surf and was nearly eaten by a shark.

Father Augustine Wetta: https://www.augustinewetta.com
His psalm raps: https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/corvuschristi/ran

• (00:00:00) - Intro
• (00:01:59) - A Benedictine monk since 1996
• (00:03:30) - The monk with no pockets
• (00:05:26) - Stuck in an elevator, and it was perfect
• (00:07:13) - A family that argued about God
• (00:08:15) - Why the Benedictines have lasted
• (00:10:10) - How monks end an argument
• (00:14:15) - Bad at being a monk
• (00:15:11) - No exit: vows, marriage and commitment
• (00:20:47) - You will marry the wrong person
• (00:23:02) - AI and the Psalms as gangster raps
• (00:28:30) - A dangerous dance with the beast?
• (00:30:45) - Why a robot can never say Mass
• (00:37:36) - Building our own gods
• (00:38:53) - Ouija boards and demons
• (00:43:34) - Our times are too certain
• (00:50:13) - Entertainment vs the sacred
• (00:56:51) - Cool vs beautiful
• (00:59:48) - Shame, honor and virtue signaling
• (01:09:33) - Humility as truthful self-knowledge
• (01:14:12) - Kill the ego? God doesn't create junk
• (01:18:16) - The closer to God, the smaller you feel
• (01:20:13) - Be a good monk today, leave tomorrow
• (01:23:24) - One practice for 30 days

Michael Hirtzel is a Civil War historian, documentary filmmaker (Calcutta is My Mother), author of The Papa Bull, and a PGA apprentice who teaches golf in Florida. He was raised in the Assemblies of God, moved through the evangelical world, landed in Calvinism, and is now seriously considering becoming Catholic. He and Josh have known each other for years, and this is the conversation they kept having offline.

It starts with a confession: the older Michael gets, the less he expects good things to happen. From there they dig into where the shame in their shared upbringing came from, why Romans 7 has to be read into Romans 8, why churches are afraid to preach grace, and the part nobody warns you about: when grace finally took the guilt away, Michael's drive went with it and he felt dead inside. Josh presses on purpose instead of performance, on who Jesus actually spent his time with, and on why the people most capable of empathy carry shame the heaviest.

The second half is about sacredness: a baptism party with no mention of God, home groups that never talk about Jesus, worship leaders pulling levers, and what draws Michael to a Latin Mass and to prayers written eight hundred years ago. They end on fasting, and a promise to record the next one four days into a fast.

About Michael Hirtzel: Michael holds his Masters in History with a focus on the Civil War and still teaches periodically as a professor of History. He also directed and produced the acclaimed documentary Calcutta is My Mother and wrote the self-help book The Papa Bull. Golf has also been a lifelong passion for Michael and he is a PGA Apprentice. He currently works as the Director of Instruction at GOLFTEC in Carrollwood, FL.

• (00:00:00) - Intro
• (00:00:33) - The older I get, the less I expect good things
• (00:03:46) - Dopamine, distraction and fake community
• (00:06:31) - So what is the meaning?
• (00:09:18) - Where the shame comes from: Calvinism and Arminianism
• (00:11:43) - The Assemblies of God's fundamental truths
• (00:13:21) - Romans 7 into Romans 8
• (00:18:25) - Shame is used to control
• (00:22:07) - If God is omnipresent, nothing can separate us
• (00:23:11) - Universalism, the elect and predestination
• (00:26:53) - Reading the gospel through grace, and feeling dead
• (00:33:47) - Purpose instead of performance
• (00:37:57) - Who did Jesus hang out with?
• (00:41:21) - Is personality really who we are?
• (00:42:45) - Why shame hits the empathetic hardest
• (00:47:15) - I believe; help my unbelief
• (00:49:19) - Where does the separation come from?
• (00:53:14) - A baptism party with no mention of God
• (00:55:47) - Religion woven into culture
• (00:58:08) - Home groups: shooting the breeze or real fellowship
• (01:04:42) - Why Michael is drawn to Catholicism
• (01:08:37) - The Litany of Humility, prayers across centuries
• (01:12:56) - Sola scriptura and communing with the saints
• (01:19:56) - The danger of going through the motions
• (01:20:48) - Worship leaders and emotional manipulation
• (01:25:27) - Set and setting: sacredness in plant medicine and mass
• (01:29:50) - Why I dread going to church
• (01:33:46) - Lent, Hallow and fasting
• (01:38:03) - A fasting episode, and closing

Arpan Patel is a software engineer turned Vedantic seeker. He spent fifteen years in the United States, moved back to India, and now writes on the Upanishads and the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra. He grew up Hindu, kept asking questions nobody around him wanted to answer, and landed somewhere most people don't expect a Hindu to land: the scriptures never define God, there is nothing after this life, and that is exactly why spirituality matters.

Josh comes at it from the other side. Raised fundamentalist Christian, he believes a divine intelligence sits in every atom and that death is a transition, not an ending. Over two recording sessions they press on each other's frameworks: whether religion should evolve, why ritual without meaning is worthless, why the Buddha gave two opposite answers to "does God exist?", whether our natural state is joy or sadness, and what the point of being spiritual is if this life is all there is.

They end up closer than either expected. Arpan calls it nothingness, Josh calls it God, and both agree the work is the same: go inward, be honest about what you find, and do the thing you love while you are here. Arpan's one practice for the next 30 days: every night, go to bed assuming you will not wake up tomorrow.

About Arpan Patel: Software engineer by profession, gardener by passion, and philosopher at heart. A sincere seeker exploring spirituality and philosophy, committed to uncovering the deeper truths behind misconceptions within Hinduism and other religious beliefs.

YouTube: Arpan Patel - Upanishad Journey: https://www.youtube.com/@ArpanPatel-UpanishadJourney

Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:38 From software engineer to Vedantic seeker
3:04 Raised Hindu in India, questioning in the US
6:35 Religion as a stepping stone to spirituality
11:20 Should religion evolve?
13:52 The trad trend and ritual without meaning
20:10 Why we avoid looking inward
23:42 Religion and spirituality have nothing to do with each other
25:10 No definition of God in the Hindu scriptures
31:15 If God appeared tomorrow, what would change?
32:21 Why the Buddha gave two opposite answers
36:42 Death, cremation and whether anything continues
38:12 Purpose or pure coincidence?
44:49 Thousands of gods, each one a symbol
48:37 Consciousness, the Big Bang and the limits of knowing
53:33 Is our natural state joy or sadness?
53:53 Part two: why our default state is sadness
58:26 Do monks and sadhus have it right?
1:00:10 Putting spirituality first in a material world
1:07:05 If this life is all there is, why be spiritual?
1:29:19 Nothingness, the soul and reincarnation
1:37:01 Do trees have a spirit?
1:39:39 I call it nothingness, you call it God
1:44:42 No afterlife as the strongest motivator
1:50:02 The purest definition of spirituality
1:55:09 One practice for the next 30 days
1:57:59 Individualism, family and crabs in a bucket
2:07:35 What to read, and closing thoughts

• (00:00:00) - Intro
• (00:00:38) - From software engineer to Vedantic seeker
• (00:03:04) - Raised Hindu in India, questioning in the US
• (00:06:35) - Religion as a stepping stone to spirituality
• (00:11:20) - Should religion evolve?
• (00:13:52) - The trad trend and ritual without meaning
• (00:20:10) - Why we avoid looking inward
• (00:23:42) - Religion and spirituality have nothing to do with each other
• (00:25:10) - No definition of God in the Hindu scriptures
• (00:31:15) - If God appeared tomorrow, what would change?
• (00:32:21) - Why the Buddha gave two opposite answers
• (00:36:42) - Death, cremation and whether anything continues
• (00:38:12) - Purpose or pure coincidence?
• (00:44:49) - Thousands of gods, each one a symbol
• (00:48:37) - Consciousness, the Big Bang and the limits of knowing
• (00:53:33) - Is our natural state joy or sadness?
• (00:53:53) - Part two: why our default state is sadness
• (00:58:26) - Do monks and sadhus have it right?
• (01:00:10) - Putting spirituality first in a material world
• (01:07:05) - If this life is all there is, why be spiritual?
• (01:29:19) - Nothingness, the soul and reincarnation
• (01:37:01) - Do trees have a spirit?
• (01:39:39) - I call it nothingness, you call it God
• (01:44:42) - No afterlife as the strongest motivator
• (01:50:02) - The purest definition of spirituality
• (01:55:09) - One practice for the next 30 days
• (01:57:59) - Individualism, family and crabs in a bucket
• (02:07:35) - What to read, and closing thoughts

A noble death is ACCESS to life

That’s the real reason why suicide backfires

Humans are on a spiritual loosh farm, a prison planet being milked for negative energies

The only way out is to re-connect with the Divine directly and transcend the constraints of this realm

That’s why Jesus was able to perform miracles and speak so simply and clearly a child could understand it - he understood the way to the source is within

For whatever reason each of us is here -those of us who are genuinely souled, not NPC’s- there is free will only to an extent

The journey is set and determined by fate and/or our willingness to endure pain in order to grow spiritually

We have to be wiped of conscious understanding or the journey and the work wouldn’t be real - after all why would you ever be afraid if you know the dog is on a chain and can only bark, but never reach you?

The funny thing to me is that Christians will accept the story of Job, God making a bet with the Devil in narcissistic arrogance and destroying many lives just to make a point about his worshippers…

But those same people will be vehemently angry and scoff at the idea of a spiritual loosh farm where demonic entities are allowed to feed on our fear, and it is up to us individually to transcend and “win” the game by denying them those lower frequency emotions

The despondency, the grief and shame and fear and anger that are present in suicide loses the game to the dark spiritual machine.

Maybe that means you have to play again, maybe that means your soul becomes one of them, there are many theories - I have zero interest in finding out because my desire is to learn grow and evolve toward Truth and enlightenment

If the story is already written then my only role is to learn MY lessons in order to develop

and eventually I’ll be granted the open doorway to LIFE

which is accessed through the transition that is death

Only a soul at peace passes through that gateway unscathed

Which means my soul earthly aim must be targeting peace, and joy, and love

Whether as a monk or as a political pundit, as a rich man or as a garbageman,

the end game is identical

EARN LIFE

Which means live in such a way that material bodily death will reward your spirit’s integrity for the higher purpose

By allowing you to reconnect with source,

Life itself

When it's a charismatic variation of the religious framework, if you close your eyes it's nearly impossible to tell if you are in a pentecostal Christian gathering or a charismatic Catholic one...

Yet both sides would be staunchly against the 5% differences in their house of worship decor and the theology.

Is that truly of "God", is one side really right and the other really wrong?

Or is the truth found merely within, through one's own direct connection with the Divine?

GUEST: Terry Tucker, Author & Speaker
BIO: Terry Tucker is a speaker, author, and podcast guest on the topics of motivation, mindset, and self-development. Among his diverse professional roles, Terry has been a marketing executive, a hospital administrator, a SWAT Hostage Negotiator, and for the past thirteen years, a cancer warrior. He is the author of Sustainable Excellence: Ten Principles To Leading Your Uncommon And Extraordinary Life and a featured author of Perspectives On Cancer: Stories Of Healing, Hope, & Resilience.
FAITH: Cradle Catholic who has been battling terminal cancer for 13 years. Death should have taken me several times, however, my current purpose is God using my malignancy to show people his love, mercy, grace, peace, healing, and compassion.

HOW TO CONNECT:
Motivational Check Website: https://www.motivationalcheck.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terry-tucker-9b5605179/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/motivationalcheck
X (Twitter): https://x.com/terrytucker2012
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sustainableexcellenceauthor/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2CUA6R1zP2ZcjzhzGKWkQ

Check out Terry's book on Amazon called Sustainable Excellence, Ten Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life