Bill Reel converted to the LDS Church at 17, became a bishop at 29, and started a podcast while still bishop to defend the faith. He was, by every measure the church uses, very good at his religion. The research he did to help people stay is what took him out, and in 2018 the church excommunicated him for apostasy. Today he runs Mormon Discussion Inc., a nonprofit network of podcasts, and works as a trauma-informed coach for people leaving high-demand religion.

Josh came in expecting Bill to turn the premise of the show on its head, and he does. Bill says you can be a really good Mormon without being a good human being, and that for years he was the first and not the second. They talk about a church run on appearances, the rule that it is wrong to criticize leaders even when the criticism is true, the documentary history that ended his faith, what happened to his family, and why he doesn't miss being certain.

Where they land: Bill no longer believes in a personal God, but he loves the big questions and is sure of a few things it isn't. His advice for anyone, believer or doubter, is to watch for dogma and to go with the most rational answer until new information comes along.

About Bill Reel: Bill Reel is the founder and executive director of Mormon Discussion Inc., a nonprofit focused on examining Mormonism, supporting faith transitions, and helping people rebuild meaningful lives after religious deconstruction. He is a longtime podcaster, public commentator, and certified somatic-informed trauma coach whose work explores religion, psychology, institutional accountability, and healing from high-demand systems.

Mormon Discussion Inc.: https://mormondiscussions.org/
YouTube: Mormon Discussion Inc.: https://www.youtube.com/c/MormonDiscussionsInc

• (00:00:00) - Intro
• (00:00:36) - Turning the show's premise on its head
• (00:01:06) - A non-religious kid falls for Mormonism at 17
• (00:03:32) - Bishop at 29
• (00:04:50) - Reading the critics before baptism
• (00:08:25) - How Mormonism differs from Christianity
• (00:13:45) - Married young, four kids
• (00:15:31) - Trust your feelings, not the facts
• (00:19:47) - Good at the religion, bad at being human
• (00:25:09) - A church about appearances
• (00:29:24) - Three heavens and exaltation
• (00:32:26) - What the gospel looks like on Sunday
• (00:37:00) - Wrong to criticize leaders, even if it's true
• (00:39:59) - A sitting bishop starts a podcast
• (00:43:28) - Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire, and excommunication
• (00:44:22) - When the harm can't be blamed on God
• (00:49:17) - His family left first
• (00:51:58) - Mixed-faith marriages
• (00:53:51) - The exodus from the church
• (00:56:29) - Documents versus faith
• (01:00:36) - Life after Mormonism
• (01:03:57) - Does he still believe in God?
• (01:07:00) - Morality without religion
• (01:13:22) - Can most people handle freedom?
• (01:17:11) - Helping people after deconstruction
• (01:19:25) - One thing to do for 30 days
• (01:24:12) - Where to find Bill