As IU football has reached heights not seen in generations, so too has the mood of the IU fanbase. Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth sit down with Ryan Phillips to discuss the change in vibes experienced by fans of the long suffering Hoosier program.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

IU football just went from “pinch me” to “prove it.” Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth sit down with Galen Clavio to unpack the Hoosiers’ rapid rise—how it happened, what it means, and how a long-suffering fanbase should handle success. Then we zoom out: the decades-old cultural tug-of-war between the North and South and how it fuels the Big Ten vs. SEC battle for the soul of college football.

What you’ll hear

“Was it real?”—reliving last season and why fans should savor this run, not fear it.

How IU’s surge compressed the “honeymoon” timeline and turbocharged recruiting in Year 2.

The North vs. South culture clash: narratives, talent pipelines, and why media/TV incentives shape the conversation.

Chapters (approx.)

00:00 Cold open

11:30 “Was it real?” + savoring the moment

23:45 Recruiting & the accelerated timeline

49:50 Big Ten vs. SEC culture war

1:19:05 TV money, media narratives, and power dynamics

About the show

Hosted by Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth, X’s & Joe’s blends data, history, and a little Hoosier heart. Today’s guest: Galen Clavio.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth examine the beloved mythology of in-state recruiting, exploring whether building championship teams with local talent is still viable in modern college basketball.

Puerto Rico Recap & Recruiting Updates

[00:00-15:00]

Bob and Mike discuss IU's successful exhibition trip to Puerto Rico, highlighting impressive performances and what the games revealed about the team's offensive potential. They also touch on the busy recruiting landscape, upcoming visits, and how the new coaching staff is filling their recruiting pipeline with diverse targets across multiple positions.

The Dorothy Complex

[15:00-30:00]

Using "The Wizard of Oz" as a framework, Bob and Mike dive into the mythology surrounding in-state recruiting. They identify three distinct versions of the argument:

• The extreme position: Load up on as many in-state kids as possible
• The moderate approach: Swap in a few three-star locals at the margins
• The observational stance: Frustration over missing elite in-state prospects

The discussion explores whether kids even want to stay home anymore, given changing family backgrounds and transplant populations.

The Numbers Game

[30:00-45:00]

Mike presents data showing Indiana's changing talent production compared to basketball hotbeds like Georgia and Texas. Key revelations include how Indiana now produces only 2-3 top 100 players annually versus seven in peak years, and the geographic shift of elite talent toward the South and Southwest. The conversation covers population migration, infrastructure changes, and why the "inexhaustible pool" theory no longer holds.

Modern Coaching Realities

[45:00-60:00]

Bob examines what coaches actually consider when balancing in-state versus national recruiting, using Matt Painter's Purdue model as a case study. Topics include:

• System-based recruiting versus talent acquisition
• The "who can you get" factor in roster construction
• How the transfer portal changes long-term planning
• Why relationships with local coaches still matter

Championship Blueprints

[60:00-75:00]

Analysis of national championship rosters reveals that 85% of starters over the past 25 years were from out-of-state. Even programs in talent-rich areas like Virginia had zero in-state starters on their title team. The discussion examines whether building around local talent is mathematically feasible for championship contention.

Indiana's Path Forward

[75:00-End]

Bob and Mike conclude with strategies for maintaining in-state connections while pursuing elite talent nationally. Topics include using walk-on programs strategically, staying visible in local communities, and why the current coaching staff's diverse recruiting approach makes sense for IU's championship aspirations.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth are joined by Scott Caulfield of Crimson Cast to examine the Big Ten's championship drought, exploring why the conference has failed to produce an NCAA basketball champion since Michigan in 1989.

Main Topics

Scott's Origin Story & Bloomington Memories

[00:00-15:00]

Scott shares his unlikely journey from New York City to small-town Bloomington and the formative experiences of growing up around IU's campus. Stories include legendary arcade haunts, meeting Galen at the campus radio station, and surviving Bob Knight's actual college class - complete with unforgettable encounters that reveal Knight's intimidating presence up close.

One Shining Moment Obsession

[15:00-30:00]

Scott reveals his decades-long ritual of recording and analyzing every One Shining Moment video since the early 1990s. The conversation explores:

• Why this montage is unique in all of sports

• How production values have evolved over the years

• What the footage reveals about which conferences actually matter in March

• The painful reality of Big Ten representation in recent years

The Numbers Don't Lie

[30:00-45:00]

A data deep-dive into Big Ten tournament performance since 1987 reveals a troubling pattern of near-misses and missed opportunities. The discussion examines whether the conference's multiple championship game appearances represent bad luck or something more systemic about Big Ten basketball.

Coaching & Conference Leadership

[45:00-60:00]

Questions about the Big Ten's coaching hierarchy and whether the conference has the leadership to compete with other major conferences.

Topics include:

• Tom Izzo's role as unofficial conference dean

• Resistance to modern changes like NIL and transfer portal

• How other conferences are embracing younger, more adaptable coaches

• Whether the Big Ten needs a changing of the guard

The Talent Gap

[60:00-75:00]

Eye-opening recruiting data reveals stark differences between Big Ten rosters and championship-caliber teams from other conferences. The analysis covers geographic talent distribution, position-specific recruiting challenges, and why the conference continues to lose homegrown stars to programs outside the Midwest.

Indiana's Championship Window

[75:00-End]

Scott makes the case for why Indiana might be uniquely positioned to break the Big Ten's championship drought. The conversation covers the program's potential advantages in the modern college basketball landscape and whether IU can finally give Big Ten fans something to celebrate in One Shining Moment.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth field listener questions on a range of sports and non-sports topics to fill the summer dead period in college basketball, covering everything from bison merchandise to movie recommendations.

Main Topics

Summer Check-ins & Countdown Clock

[00:00-15:00]

Bob and Mike catch up on summer travels - Bennett's first beach trip and chocolate-fueled Hershey Park adventures. Mike reveals they're officially under 30 days until college football kickoff. They also plug Perry Metz's YouTube channel featuring digitized classic media interviews from the 70s and 80s.

Bison Merchandise & Black Uniform Debate

[15:00-25:00]

Questions about the bison costume unveiling (August 30th against Old Dominion) and Homefield Apparel's early merchandise drop. The conversation shifts to IU's relationship with black uniforms, including memories of the infamous 1997 disaster against Kentucky and why black works for both traditionalists and recruits.

Tony's Coaching Questions

[25:00-45:00]

Jokes about Tony Adragna’s "massive NIL resources" at Greenwood Christian Academy lead to discussions about championship expectations. Questions about whether recruits automatically get ranking boosts after committing to major programs spark analysis of causation vs. correlation in recruiting rankings.

IU Roster Deep Dive

[45:00-65:00]

Detailed breakdown of how IU's wing rotation might work with multiple versatile players. Discussion covers why the program didn't pursue another traditional center more aggressively, examining DeVries' offensive philosophy and the constraints of roster building in the portal era.

Basketball Philosophy Questions

[65:00-85:00]

Debates over NCAA tournament expansion and whether Bob Knight's motion offense could work in the modern game. Topics include shot clock constraints, the evolution of dribble penetration, and how defensive adjustments have changed offensive spacing.

Movies & Random Fun

[85:00-End]

The episode lightens up with Bob and Mike's top 10 films since 2000, discussions of timeless movies, and personal questions about technology predictions. Things get silly with dream pet choices - Bob wants a monkey butler while Mike strategically picks a red panda to score marital points.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth dive deep into the shadowy world of negative recruiting in college basketball, exploring the tactics, effectiveness, and ethics of programs steering players away from rival schools.

Main Topics

Sports Dead Period & Pacers Reflection

[00:00-15:00]

Bob and Mike discuss the dreaded summer sports lull and reflect on the Indiana Pacers' surprising playoff run. They examine the team's selfless ball movement, Tyrese Haliburton's devastating injury, and what the season meant for bringing fans back to NBA basketball after years away.

Negative Recruiting Parallels to Politics

[15:00-25:00]

Drawing parallels to political campaigning, Bob and Mike establish how negative recruiting works as a persuasion contest. They discuss:

• Key differences between political ads and recruiting (multiple "candidates," shadow operations)
• The concept of "kamikaze" recruiting to prevent rivals from landing recruits
• Strategic timing of when to go negative in recruitment battles

The Intelligence Game

[25:00-35:00]

The conversation turns to how programs gather intelligence on recruits and families. Topics include:

• Assistant coaches' extensive networks and relationship-building
• Understanding family dynamics and decision-makers
• The role of third-party surrogates like AAU coaches
• How specific intel can get (down to restaurant preferences)

Variables & Vulnerabilities

[35:00-45:00]

Using a comprehensive list of recruiting factors, they explore how different variables create opportunities for negative recruiting. The discussion covers playing time, facilities, academics, party scene, geography, and more, emphasizing how each recruit's priorities differ dramatically.

The Scott Drew vs. Bob Knight Story

[45:00-55:00]

Bob and Mike recount the legendary bathroom confrontation where Bob Knight cornered Scott Drew over negative recruiting materials. This story illustrates the tensions between established programs and upstart challengers trying to disrupt the recruiting landscape.

Player Compensation Era & IU's Fresh Start

[55:00-End]

The discussion shifts to how NIL has changed recruiting dynamics and examines IU's situation under the new coaching staff. They analyze recent comments about fan expectations and how confident leadership can address external criticism.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bob Moats and Mike Wiemuth are joined by Dr. Galen Clavio and former IU Student Body President Cooper Tinsley to explore how the bison mascot made its return to Indiana University.

A Historic Recording Setup

[00:00-05:00]

A first for the show - recording with Cooper calling in from Paris during his study abroad. Cooper served as IU's 77th Student Body President after transferring from Alabama, where he only lasted one semester before realizing IU was where he belonged.

Cooper's Path to Student Leadership

[05:00-15:00]

Cooper walked through his journey from Alabama transfer to student government leader, explaining how communication (or lack thereof) was often the biggest challenge in student government. His presidency was notably successful with unusually good cooperation between the executive and congressional branches.

How the Bison Movement Started

[15:00-25:00]

The perfect storm began in fall 2024 when IU football's incredible season created unprecedented campus unity. Cooper had a conversation with Athletics Director Scott Dolson about how football was bringing students together like nothing had in years. Learning that the original bison mascot came from student government action in the 1960s, Cooper decided to follow that historical playbook.

Galen's Years-Long Campaign

[25:00-35:00]

Galen explained how multiple groups had been working toward this goal independently:

• Homefield Apparel's bison merchandise starting around 2015-2016
• Professor Paul Gutar's grassroots campaign with merchandise
• Galen's "Bring Back the Bison" advocacy on Crimson Cast
• Athletics department's growing interest

All these efforts converged at exactly the right time.

The Student Government Battle

[35:00-45:00]

What Cooper thought would be a quick, fun vote turned into a three-hour debate lasting until midnight. The main opposition centered around fears of bringing back the original 1960s costume, which everyone agreed was genuinely terrifying. Cooper's brilliant move: posting an Instagram poll during the meeting that got 750+ responses in three minutes, with 70-80% student support.

Making the Case for Skeptics

[45:00-55:00]

Galen laid out the three-part argument for the bison:

• Historical connection to Indiana (bison territory, Buffalo Trace, state seal)
• Gives the "Hoosier" name a visual identity it's always lacked
• Commercial necessity - most successful college programs have mascots

The Bigger Picture

[55:00-End]

Cooper shared how Alabama integrated their mascot into the entire university experience, not just sports.

The group discussed how the bison could serve multiple generations - from young kids meeting the mascot to alumni having a consistent symbol to rally around. Galen reflected that if contributing to bringing back the bison is his main legacy at IU, he'd be satisfied with that impact.

And much more …

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.