This is an explosive and highly emotional confrontation between former Israeli Knesset Speaker Avrum Burg and host Israel Ellis, challenging the foundations of Israeli identity. Burg labels Zionism as "scaffolding" and obsolete, advocating for a post-Zionist "shared space" or one-state solution built on equality, not states. The debate escalates into personal attacks, with Burg calling the host a "warmonger" for prioritizing self-defense, and Ellis challenging Burg's realism. They grapple with the existential crisis of October 7th, leading to Burg's controversial assertion that God is "out of the equation"—leaving all moral responsibility to humanity.

0:00 - Introduction to Avrum Burg and Podcast Setup

1:25 - Rejecting Traditional Zionism: Defining the Term

2:15 - Zionism as Scaffolding for Jewish Sovereignty

4:45 - Personal Identity: Human, Israeli, Jew

5:45 - Origins of Zionism and Post-Holocaust Context

7:30 - Security Failures in Israel: The Most Dangerous Place for Jews?

8:50 - Secular Foundations of Israel and Biblical Paradoxes

9:45 - Sovereignty, Power, and Denial of Palestinian Rights

10:15 - Debate on Palestinian Identity and Indigenous Rights

11:30 - Historical Exile of Jews: Voluntary or Forced?

13:00 - Continuous Non-Jewish Presence in the Land

14:00 - Respecting Palestinian Self-Determination

15:30 - Indigenous Claims and Historical Facts

17:15 - Jewish History Without a Modern State of Israel

18:30 - Israel Belongs to Israelis, Not World Jewry

19:40 - Promoting a One-State Solution: Freedoms Over Borders

20:25 - Two-State vs. One-State: Shared Space and Equality

21:30 - Demographic Concerns and Ethnocracy

1:03:40 - Moral Indifference, Antisemitism, and Leftist Ideologies

1:04:45 - Generalizations and Coalitions with Extremists

1:07:50 - Human Failures Leading to October 7th

1:08:45 - Where Was God on October 7th? Theological Crash

1:10:45 - Jewish Theology in Modernity: Secularization and Holocaust

1:12:30 - Personal Responsibility Over Divine Intervention

1:13:20 - Humanity in the Image of God: Peace vs. War

1:14:45 - Names of God: Vengeance vs. Peace

1:16:10 - Pursuit of Peace and Loving Life

1:17:00 - Is the War Over? Root Causes Unaddressed

1:19:00 - Ceasefire Plan: Demilitarization of Hamas

1:20:00 - Deradicalization of Both Societies

1:21:30 - Syllabus of Hate: Changing Curriculums on Both Sides

1:22:40 - Never Again: Survival and Antisemitism

1:23:20 - Poisonous Texts in Judaism: Chosenness vs. Democracy

1:25:00 - Closing Remarks and Message to the World
1:26:10 - Podcast Outro and Call to Subscribe

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