This week and next we're joined by a very special guest - Arno Michaelis, author, anti-extremism activist, reformed white nationalist and former singer of the neo-Nazi metal band Centurion.

You may have seen Arno recently on YouTube where he did a rather brilliant interview with Business Insider. As long time fans of the pod know, Chris' interest in the far-right is something we've touched upon a lot over the last 7 and a half years. So, when the opportunity presented itself to chat with Arno about not just his past, but how music is used a tool for radicalisation, we couldn't pass it up.

In true Unsung fashion, our conversation is deep an extensive, taking not just Arno's past and neo-Nazi music, but a broader discussion about the far-right's position in modern mainstream discourse.

In part one, we chat about Arno's early interest in punk rock and hip hop, through his transformation from street punk to neo-Nazi skinhead, where he provides a raw, unfiltered account of his journey. Learn about his transformation into an author and advocate for peace, his reflections on the influence of bands like Skrewdriver and Guns N' Roses, and the dangerous allure of conspiracy theories. Along the way, laugh, cringe, and maybe feel a bit enlightened about the intersections of music, hate, and redemption.

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene
00:27 Introducing the Special Guest: Arno Michaelis
01:41 Arno's Background and Books
02:35 Parents for Peace: Mission and Work
04:09 Arno's Neo-Nazi Past and Music Career
06:17 The Role of Music in Radicalization
09:37 Arno's Early Life and Punk Influence
15:12 Transition to White Power Skinhead Movement
19:37 Punk Scene Dynamics and Ideological Conflicts
38:07 The Influence of Skrewdriver and Radicalisation
39:56 The Influence of Skrewdriver
41:32 Musical Roots and Personal Reflections
42:46 The Impact of Skrewdriver's Music
43:37 Skrewdriver's Legacy and Controversies
47:16 Personal Connections and Reflections
52:49 The Role of Music in Radicalisation
01:01:46 Antisemitism and Conspiracy Theories
01:13:14 The Enduring Appeal of Conspiracy Theories

We've been a bit of a post-hardcore kick this year, so we thought we'd swing to the commercial end of the spectrum and talk about Alexisonfire. Specifically, Mark has chosen their 2022 comeback album 'Otherness' and we have a bit of a barney about it, as Chris and Mark's opinions on the band couldn't be more different.

We spend time exploring how this Canadian quintet revolutionised post-hardcore with their three-vocalist approach, and track their evolution from their raw 2002 debut to their thirteen-year recording gap. Mark argues that their latest album is actually their best, while Chris starts off "begging to be hit by a bus" before gradually warming to their more mature sound.

Poor old George Pettit (vocals) ranks the band's debut dead last himself, which Chris heartily agrees with. We chat about the Southern Ontario scene that birthed them, the pornstar who (unsuccessfully) tried to sue them over their name, and how their sound evolved over their career.

This episode also features a fairly comprehensive look at the band members' various side projects, from Dallas Green's City and Colour (and his random collab with Pink) to Wade McNeil joining Gallows after Frank Carter's departure.

Next week we're doing something a bit special - we'll be interviewing Arno Michaelis, former singer of neo-Nazi band Centurion, about music's role in radicalisation. We've been doing loads of prep for this one, and we'll hopefully bring you something thought-provoking. We're also moving to a new underground studio soon (literally underground), so stay tuned for that!

Episode Highlights:

[10:00] - Chris confesses he thought Alexisonfire were Scandinavian in some bizarre Mandela effect

[11:50] - The story of how Alexisonfire took their name from pornstar Alexis Fire, who then tried to sue them

[14:50] - Mark explains how the geography of Southern Ontario created the perfect breeding ground for bands

[29:10] - The three-vocalist dynamic that set Alexisonfire apart: Dallas's angelic voice, George's screams, and Wade's "gargling nails" vocals

[36:00] - George Pettit ranks the band's self-titled debut dead last in their discography

[41:00] - The pivotal role of their 2006 album "Crisis" going Platinum in Canada

[50:27] - "I wanted to put the knife in Screamo" - George's controversial statement about moving their sound forward

[1:09:00] - The shift to 70s rock influences and the addition of keyboards on "Otherness"

[1:30:00] - Chris admits he "started off begging to be hit by a bus" before gradually warming to their later work

[1:33:45] - The announcement of our upcoming move to a new underground studio

This week, we’re talking about Julie Christmas – a woman whose voice could peel paint off the walls one moment and tuck you into bed the next. Known for her work with Made Out of Babies, Battle of Mice, and her collaboration with Cult of Luna on Mariner, Julie’s debut solo album The Bad Wife is our focus here — an underrated little firebomb from 2010 that mixes noise, beauty, and some very sharp edges.

We also trace her entire career: from the blood-curdling chaos of Made Out of Babies, to the theatrical collapse of Battle of Mice (complete with a 911 call and possibly a stair-related injury), and finally to Ridiculous and Full of Blood, her triumphant 2024 return.

It’s one of those rare episodes where nobody dies, nobody gets sued, and there are no Nazis. Which, if you’re a long-time listener, you’ll know is fairly refreshing.

00:00 – Cold open and Toast of London chat
05:14 – Who is Julie Christmas?
10:25 – Vocal Style Breakdown: fragile-to-feral
14:45 – Women screaming in heavy bands
21:00 – Made Out of Babies discography walk-through
36:00 – Battle of Mice and a post-metal relationship collapse
41:56 – Mariner – the Cult of Luna collab that actually works
44:45 – Ridiculous and Full of Blood (2024)
51:30 – Spylcopa, Mouth of the Architect & other collaborations 54:55 – The Bad Wife (2010)

This week, we’re going in the exact opposite direction as last week talking about one of the most quietly revolutionary figures in modern music: Arvo Pärt. That's right, we're pivoting HARD from death metal to neoclassical music. Strap in!

We go deep on his early works, his religious conversion, and his shift into the sparse, meditative style known as tintinnabuli. Along the way we discuss how his music achieves emotional intensity through restraint, why he basically disappeared for several years, and how his minimalist compositions have become unlikely mainstays in film and television.

Expect talk about Soviet censorship, spiritual longing, and just how hard it is to make music that seems this simple. If you’ve ever cried to Spiegel im Spiegel, you’ll understand.

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction and Greetings
01:13 Discussing Radio Show Introductions
02:39 Highbrow Conversations and Wine
03:19 Introducing Arvo Pärt
03:30 Arvo Pärt's Pronunciation and Popularity
05:44 Arvo Pärt's Musical Journey
15:02 Arvo Pärt's Life and Struggles
34:12 Arvo Pärt's Film Scoring and Return to Music
35:30 Tintinnabuli Technique and Influence
44:56 Exploring the Melancholy Beauty of Arvo Pärt's Music
46:04 The Story Behind 'Für Alina'
46:55 The Technique of Tintinnabuli
51:38 Arvo Pärt's Religious Influence
01:03:37 Pärt's Impact on Modern Cinema
01:24:48 Pärt's Music in Palliative Care
01:29:35 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Once upon a time Man Must Die released two albums on Relapse Records and toured an absolute shit load. I actually remember when they toured with Machine Head, which is a fairly impressive thing for any metal band to achieve.

Man Must Die were a death metal band, and in some quarters they were even called a technical death metal band. A term that vocalist, and our good pal, Joe disputes. And with good reason - technical death metal isn't really his bag.

However, he does love Cryptopsy, and he has an extensive knowledge of death metal. And metal in general, really.

So this week we thought it'd be a good idea to ask him to come along to talk about Cryptopsy, get his take on the various sub genres of death metal and to generally shoot the shit about a truly technical death metal band.

We’re back with the final part of our exploration of The Wildhearts, one of rock’s most truly unpredictable and chaotic bands. If you thought last week’s episode covered all their madness, think again cause we've a TON more stories in this one. Including a pretty grizzly tattoo story, so consider this a trigger warning for self-harm content.

This time, we’re focusing on the mid-to-late years of their career, a period filled with controversial albums, internal meltdowns, and some truly bizarre stories. From an album that even the band hated to a festival riot they actively encouraged, The Wildhearts somehow never did things the easy way.

We explore:

• The controversy around Fishing for Luckies and why it was re-released multiple times

• The implosion of the band in the late ‘90s and their never-ending lineup changes

• How Ginger Wildheart rebuilt the band from the ground up more than once

• The band's strangest stories, including hallucinated UFOs, body horror, and a food fight at Download Festival

• Why The Wildhearts never quite made it to the mainstream, despite being one of the most influential cult bands in rock

We also attempt to answer some crucial questions:

• Did Endless Nameless ruin their mainstream chances, or was it just ahead of its time?

• Is Fishing for Luckies one of their best albums, or an overstuffed mess?

• Were The Wildhearts a punk band, a metal band, or something completely different?

00:00 – Intro & Banter: More Groundhog Day jokes than necessary.
01:07 – The Fishing for Luckies Controversy: A cash grab or a cult classic?
04:25 – Endless Nameless & Their Most Divisive Album: Was this a genius move or career sabotage?
09:10 – The Wildhearts’ Internal Chaos: Drugs, drama, and why they couldn’t hold a lineup together.
16:02 – Ginger’s Grossest Story Ever: The marshmallow arm incident (not for the squeamish).
19:24 – UFO Sightings & Conspiracy Theories: A night of hallucinations, tequila, and unexplained lights.
20:55 – The Download Festival Riot: Why The Wildhearts encouraged 80,000 people to throw things at them.
26:00 – Why Their Songs Are Too Long: Do they have too many ideas for their own good?
33:40 – Their Legacy & Influence: Why they never broke through but remain a beloved cult band.
49:00 – Final Thoughts & Outro: What we learned from this absolute rollercoaster of a band.

The Wildhearts could very well be one of the most chaotic, unpredictable, and underrated British rock bands ever. Ideal for unsung in a lot of ways, really. So this week and next, we'll we’re diving deep into their sound, history, and legacy.

• Claims that they sound like The Beatles merged with Metallica
• The endless lineup changes, hiatuses and threats of legal action
• How Ginger Wildheart outsmarted the music industry before crowdfunding was even a thing
• Why touring is harder than ever for bands like The Wildhearts
• How they built a cult following despite never truly “making it”

00:00 – Intro & Banter: Why we keep coming back to this band.
13:00 – The Wildhearts' Unique Sound: The Beatles meets Metallica (or something even weirder).
18:15 – Internal Chaos & Lineup Changes: A band that couldn’t stay together.
28:05 – How Ginger Wildheart Outsmarted the Music Industry: Crowdfunding and business moves.
39:50 – Why Touring Is Harder Than Ever: The death of mid-tier bands.
45:00 – The Wildhearts’ Cult Status & Legacy: Why they never “made it” but still matter.
51:00 – Final Thoughts & Outro: Would they even work in today’s industry?

We love it when we get a chance to talk about very influential bands who are extremely overlooked. It is, after all, the whole reason this podcast exists. And there are few as influential, and overlooked, as Ink & Dagger. Their albums aren't even on Bandcamp, let alone streaming sites. That probably tells you everything you need to know.

Frankly, without Ink & Dagger, bands like Thursday, My Chemical Romance and a whole legion of post-hardcore/emo bands from the early 00s simply wouldn't exist. They gained a brief spike in popularity in the 2010s when they reformed with Geoff Rickly from Thursday on vocals, which ensured that their vital legacy got its day in the sun.

Ink & Dagger were only active from 1995 to 2000, but were incredibly prolific in that short space of time, producing 4 EPs, 2 splits and 2 albums. Their sound evolved very quickly, and amongst all of that was relentless touring, a revolving door of band members (singer Sean McCabe and guitarist Don Devore remained the only consistent members) and at least a book or two's worth of insane on-the-road hijinks.