『Two Tall Guys Talking Sales』のカバーアート

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales

著者： Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey
無料で聴く

"Two Tall Guys Talking Sales," where Sean O'Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson discuss a single sales topic. Kevin and Sean together have about 60 years of experience in professional selling. This podcast helps people in sales, sales leadership, and business leadership or company owners realize the maximum value of their company by improving their revenue generation capability. This podcast is designed to help those people enhance their companies' sales management practices, methodologies, processes, teams, and messaging. Sean O'Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson are Fractional Vice Presidents of Sales. They operate their own companies separately but have partnered for this podcast to advise salespeople and SMB companies on successful strategies and methodologies. Kevin is the CEO of Lighthouse Sales Advisors. Lighthouse Sales Advisors is a sales leadership solution provider for small businesses. Lighthouse helps business owners navigate the potential pitfalls around sales growth, sales turnaround, or scaling up by leveraging sales acumen and decades of experience to build effective sales teams. https://www.lighthousesalesadvisors.com/ Sean is the CEO of New Sales Expert. He helps company owners realize the maximum value of their company by improving their revenue generation capability. He helps owners enhance their sales management, methodologies, processes, teams, and messaging.2024 マネジメント マネジメント・リーダーシップ 経済学
エピソード
  • Are Your Salespeople in the Wrong Roles? How to Match Talent to Revenue Growth

    Are Your Salespeople in the Wrong Roles? How to Match Talent to Revenue Growth
    2026/06/09
    Two Tall Guys Talking Sales takes a practical look at one of the most common sales management mistakes: assuming all salespeople are built for the same job. Sean O'Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson use a basketball analogy to unpack the difference between hunters, farmers, lone wolves, challengers, relationship sellers, transactional sellers, and trappers. This episode challenges owners, sales leaders, and frontline sellers to examine whether their sales processes, compensation plans, and revenue management expectations actually match the type of salesperson required for Sales success. If your team is underperforming, the issue may not be a lack of effort. It may be role design. Key Topics Discussed 01:00 — Why Sales Roles Need Clear Definitions Sean opens with a basketball analogy: if you do not understand the positions, the game becomes harder to follow. The same is true in sales. Confusing labels like hunter, farmer, challenger, lone wolf, and trapper can create bad hiring decisions, poor coaching, and broken sales strategies. 02:50 — Do Not Confuse Seller Type with Business Model Kevin draws an important distinction between the kind of salesperson you have and the kind of business you operate. A transactional sales model, a relationship-driven sales model, and an enterprise sales model each require different selling behaviors, messaging, and support structures. 06:20 — Hunters, Farmers, and the Cost of Misalignment Sean explains why a one-time ERP-style sale usually requires a hunter, while repeat-purchase relationships often require a farmer. Asking one type of salesperson to behave like another may be possible, but it is rarely efficient. Sales leaders need Business acumen to know what role the business actually requires. 08:25 — Lone Wolves, Challengers, and Unsupported Sales Teams The discussion turns to lone wolves and challengers, especially in organizations that give salespeople little infrastructure, weak marketing, poor sales processes, or minimal sales enablement. If leadership expects sellers to "just figure it out," they may be selecting for independence while unintentionally creating risk. 09:50 — How to Reshape a Sales Team Without Blowing It Up Kevin warns against the instinct to immediately replace the team. The better move is to take an intellectually honest look at the team's structure, upskill where possible, and decide whether the business needs account managers, customer service support, hunters, or relationship-focused sellers. 12:50 — The Trapper: Building Toward Enterprise Revenue Generation Sean closes by describing the trapper: the salesperson who can hunt, farm, lead, challenge, and plan proactively for larger future opportunities. This is where Value selling becomes more than a technique. It becomes a disciplined approach to expanding from a pilot project to departmental adoption, divisional traction, and eventually enterprise-level revenue generation. Key Quotes Sean O'Shaughnessey — 01:07 "Not knowing what the roles are is a big deal. So that same kind of thing happens in a sales arena, where you may not understand what type of salesperson you have or what type of salesperson you need." Kevin Lawson — 02:51 "It's important to note that just because somebody looks like something doesn't mean that's actually what they are." Kevin Lawson — 03:51 "You, as a seller, need to understand your business model so that you know how to sell." Sean O'Shaughnessey — 08:08 "Asking one type of salesperson to be another is really difficult to do. That's like asking that point guard to be the center." Kevin Lawson — 10:39 "Change people before you have to change people." Sean O'Shaughnessey — 14:15 "How do you become proactive? How do you plan for the deal that's going to happen in nine months?" Additional Resources The Challenger Sale — Referenced during the discussion of lone wolves and challengers, especially the idea that some sellers succeed by taking control of complex customer conversations. Eliminate Your Competition by Sean O'Shaughnessey — Sean refers to the "trapper" concept from his book as the more complete sales archetype for complex, enterprise-level selling. B2B Sales Lab — Kevin mentions that this topic will be explored further in B2B Sales Lab office hours, where sellers and sales leaders can dig into the practical work of assessing team fit, role design, and sales execution. A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Audit your current sales team against the sales motion your business actually requires. Do not start with personality labels. Start with the business model. Are you selling once and moving on? Are you expanding accounts over years? Are your deals transactional, relationship-driven, enterprise-level, or a mix? Then map each salesperson against the role the business needs: hunter, farmer, account manager, challenger, lone wolf, or trapper. The decision that follows is the real work. Some people need coaching. Some need a ...
    続きを読む 一部表示
    18 分
  • When Buyers Don't Care: Stop Selling Features and Start Selling Value

    When Buyers Don't Care: Stop Selling Features and Start Selling Value
    2026/06/02
    Opening a prospecting conversation with "we have 180 million contacts" may sound impressive inside the seller's company, but it often misses the buyer's reality. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey challenge salespeople and sales leaders to stop confusing features with value. They unpack why strong Messaging starts with the buyer's problem, how Value selling creates separation, and why better sales management requires sales teams to understand what customers actually buy—not just what sellers think they sell. Key Topics Discussed Why "more data" is not the value proposition — 00:00 Sean opens with a sharp critique of prospecting tools that lead with database size. A salesperson does not need 10 million contacts. They need the right four people inside the right account. That distinction is central to effective Sales strategies because activity without relevance does not generate Revenue. The buyer does not buy your product; they buy the outcome — 01:56 Kevin reframes the discussion around the "why" behind value propositions. Customers rarely wake up wanting sales infrastructure, fractional sales leadership, or backend data aggregation. They want reliability, growth, better decision-making, and improved business performance. That is where real Business acumen enters the sales conversation. The hospital cleaning example: selling safety, not cleaning supplies — 04:21 Kevin shares a memorable story about a janitorial services salesperson who understood the true value of his work. In a hospital, the outcome was not a clean room. It was a safe, sterile environment for children receiving serious care. That example lands because it shows how Value selling moves beyond product language into buyer consequence. Sean's college selection story: outcomes beat features — 07:02 Sean explains how his college won his attention not by selling class size, curriculum, or facilities, but by emphasizing employment outcomes. For a young person entering a difficult economy, "graduates get jobs" mattered more than institutional features. The lesson applies directly to modern sales processes: speak to the outcome the buyer is trying to achieve. Using PONI to uncover what customers really value — 09:33 Sean introduces PONI: Project, Old way, New way, Improvement. It is a simple but powerful way to build case studies, sharpen Messaging, and identify what your product actually does for customers. The improvement is the story. The product is only the mechanism. Stop training buyers to shop you on price — 10:52 Kevin gets practical about a common sales mistake: opening with "I can save you money." That may feel buyer-friendly, but it teaches the customer to evaluate you on price alone. Strong Revenue management depends on protecting margin, defending value, and guiding the buyer toward profit, growth, reliability, and strategic impact. Key Quotes Sean O'Shaughnessey — 00:32 "I have never needed 10 million people that I need to talk to. What I needed was the four people at that company." Kevin Lawson — 04:21 "You all have the need to sell your product, but your customer may not need to buy your product. They need what your product does for them." Sean O'Shaughnessey — 09:57 "What was the improvement? Go figure that out, and then from that point on, always talk about the improvement." Kevin Lawson — 11:13 "If all you can do is save them money, you're not adding any other value." Kevin Lawson — 13:39 "Revenue feeds ego, profit feeds family." Additional Resources B2B Sales Lab — Kevin invites listeners to join the B2B Sales Lab for office hours, peer discussion, and deeper work on real-world sales challenges. Visit b2b-sales-lab.com. PONI Framework — Sean's practical structure for turning customer stories into stronger sales conversations: Project, Old way, New way, Improvement. CIH and Metrics — Kevin references prior podcast discussions on CIH and metrics as foundational to improving sales execution, qualification, and the probability of success in major opportunities. A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Interview your five best customers and ask them to show you how they use your product or service. Do not ask what features they like. Ask what changed. What was harder before? What is easier now? What risk disappeared? What cost came out? What revenue opportunity opened up? Then rewrite your primary sales message around the improvement rather than the product. That single exercise will expose whether your current Messaging supports real Sales success or merely describes what you sell. Summary This episode is a direct challenge to lazy positioning. Kevin and Sean are not arguing against features, data, tools, or price discipline; they are arguing against making those things the center of the sales conversation. Buyers care about outcomes, risk, growth, profit, reliability, and internal justification. If your sales management system, Sales ...
    続きを読む 一部表示
    18 分
  • The Sales Management Metric That Reveals Whether Your Pipeline Is Real

    The Sales Management Metric That Reveals Whether Your Pipeline Is Real
    2026/05/26
    In complex B2B sales, the best opportunities rarely move forward because of a single perfect conversation with a single perfect buyer. They move because the seller creates enough meaningful customer interaction to uncover problems, build internal consensus, reduce the risk of being ghosted, and increase the odds of winning larger deals. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey dig into Customer Interaction Hours, or CIH. This practical sales management metric helps sellers evaluate the real quality of their meetings, expand influence inside target accounts, and improve Sales success in longer, more competitive sales cycles. Key Topics Discussed Customer Interaction Hours as a better measure of meeting quality — 00:53 Sean introduces CIH, a metric built around the value of longer meetings with more customer stakeholders. Rather than treating every sales call as equal, CIH forces sellers and sales managers to ask a harder question: Did this meeting create enough interaction to advance the deal? Why bigger meetings create better sales intelligence — 02:09 Sean explains why larger, longer meetings often reveal more useful information than short, single-threaded conversations. More people in the room usually means more questions, more objections, more hidden politics, and more clues about the real buying process. How CIH helps sellers stay alive in competitive deals — 05:49 Sean frames one of the episode's central ideas: if the customer is still talking to you, you are still in the deal. CIH gives salespeople a way to measure whether they are creating enough meaningful interaction to remain relevant, especially in enterprise-level opportunities. Using customer conversations to diagnose business pain — 08:22 Kevin connects CIH to Value selling, Business acumen, and better discovery. When sellers involve more people across the customer's organization, they uncover operational issues, technical constraints, conflicting expectations, and financial priorities that would never surface in a narrow conversation. Reducing the risk of ghosted deals through multi-threading — 10:19 Sean explains why deals often disappear when sellers know only two or three people within the account. Customer Interaction Hours push sellers to build more relationships, improving deal visibility and making it harder for an opportunity to die quietly. Applying CIH in small and mid-sized business sales — 11:45 Kevin and Sean make clear that this is not only an enterprise sales strategy. Whether selling to a company of 10 or 10,000, sellers need to understand who influences the buying decision, who uses the product, who owns the risk, and who can block Revenue generation. Key Quotes Sean O'Shaughnessey — 01:45 "If you have a relatively long, complicated sales cycle, CIH or Customer Interaction Hours is a great way to think about it." Sean O'Shaughnessey — 05:49 "If we are still talking, then we are still in the deal." Kevin Lawson — 08:22 "We have to get in front of the right people at the right time with the right message, and getting them talking about their problems is key." Kevin Lawson — 09:14 "Don't sell the product you have. Sell the problem you solve." Sean O'Shaughnessey — 11:31 "You do not get ghosted if you know a dozen people at the company. It takes a big conspiracy to have 12 people not return your phone call." Sean O'Shaughnessey — 14:22 "Do it yourself because it's a way to keep the salesperson going the right direction and thinking about, 'How do I make my deals bigger, my meetings bigger?'" Additional Resources Sean invites listeners to continue the conversation inside B2B Sales Lab, where salespeople and sales leaders can ask questions about Customer Interaction Hours, sales metrics, Sales strategies, Sales processes, Messaging, Revenue management, and practical ways to improve complex B2B selling. A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Review the last five meaningful sales meetings on your calendar and calculate your Customer Interaction Hours. Look at how long each meeting lasted and how many customer participants were involved, then ask whether your most important opportunities have enough interaction to justify confidence. If your largest deals are built around short meetings with one or two contacts, that is not a pipeline strategy. That is hope wearing a CRM costume. The next step is direct: choose one active opportunity and identify three additional stakeholders who should care about the business problem you solve. Then create a reason to engage them. Not a generic "checking in" message. A real business reason tied to risk, implementation, financial impact, user adoption, or strategic value. Summary This episode gives salespeople and sales managers a sharper way to think about deal momentum. Customer Interaction Hours are not just another metric to stuff into a CRM dashboard; they are a practical lens for understanding whether a seller is ...
    続きを読む 一部表示
    18 分
adbl_web_anon_alc_button_suppression_t1
まだレビューはありません