Xunzi is famous for the claim that “human nature is bad.” But what does he mean by this, and if goodness does not come naturally to us, where does it come from?

In this episode, we discuss Xunzi’s distinction between nature (xing 性) and deliberate effort (wei 偽), his disagreement with Mencius, and his view that moral goodness must be "learned" and "worked at." We also ask how sharp the distinction between the natural and the artificial really is, and consider Xunzi’s comparison of moral cultivation to crafts like pottery and woodworking. If we are shaped through deliberate effort, are we both the material being shaped and the ones doing the shaping?

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• 5:36 Preface to today's topic
• 10:03 Part II -- Human nature and human artifice

Many thanks toThe Global Philosophy of Religion Project and The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, we are joined by Mark Csikszentmihalyi, Professor of East Asian Languages and Cultures and Eliaser Chair of International Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, and a leading scholar of early Chinese thought. Our conversation draws on his new book, Confucius: A New Tradition (Reaktion Books, 2026), and its striking portrayal of Confucius as a “ritual prodigy.” Through several passages from Book 10 of the Analects, we explore what ritual expertise involves, whether moral and practical wisdom can be innate, and how seemingly minor details of dress and conduct express or instantiate important social and ethical values. We also discuss Confucius’s participation in an exorcism ritual, changing interpretations of ghosts and spirits, and the famous story of Confucius's reaction to the burning of his horse stables. Along the way, we consider how successive biographies and commentaries have continually reconstructed Confucius to address new philosophical and historical concerns.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

• 10:21 Preface to today's topic
• 12:34 Part II -- Confucius as a ritual prodigy

Many thanks toThe Global Philosophy of Religion Project and The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, we take up one of the most puzzling and fascinating passages in the Zhuangzi: the “Happy Fish” debate between Zhuangzi and Huizi. Can Zhuangzi really know that the fish are happy if he is not a fish? Along the way, we explore skepticism, language, animal minds, and the ordinary but surprisingly sophisticated ways we recognize joy in other living things.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

• 12:22 Preface to today's topic
• 13:57 The Zhuangzi's happy fish debate

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website