In this episode, we are joined by Mark Csikszentmihalyi, Professor of East Asian Languages and Cultures and Eliaser Chair of International Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, and a leading scholar of early Chinese thought. Our conversation draws on his new book, Confucius: A New Tradition (Reaktion Books, 2026), and its striking portrayal of Confucius as a “ritual prodigy.” Through several passages from Book 10 of the Analects, we explore what ritual expertise involves, whether moral and practical wisdom can be innate, and how seemingly minor details of dress and conduct express or instantiate important social and ethical values. We also discuss Confucius’s participation in an exorcism ritual, changing interpretations of ghosts and spirits, and the famous story of Confucius's reaction to the burning of his horse stables. Along the way, we consider how successive biographies and commentaries have continually reconstructed Confucius to address new philosophical and historical concerns.

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• 10:21 Preface to today's topic
• 12:34 Part II -- Confucius as a ritual prodigy

Many thanks toThe Global Philosophy of Religion Project and The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, we take up one of the most puzzling and fascinating passages in the Zhuangzi: the “Happy Fish” debate between Zhuangzi and Huizi. Can Zhuangzi really know that the fish are happy if he is not a fish? Along the way, we explore skepticism, language, animal minds, and the ordinary but surprisingly sophisticated ways we recognize joy in other living things.

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• 12:22 Preface to today's topic
• 13:57 The Zhuangzi's happy fish debate

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

Confucian philosophers often suggest that having good and bad examples plays a critical role in moral education and motivation. How do good examples figure into our ethical education, and how do bad examples help us discover vices or shortcomings in our selves? In this episode, we discuss this wide-ranging issue in connection with the Analects of Confucius, beginning with Confucius's famous remark that he can find a teacher in just about any social setting (even when out walking with at least two other people chosen at random).

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• 13:45 Preface to today's topic
• 14:25 Moral examples in the Analects

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

Many of us value autonomy in decision-making: we want to make our own choices and think for ourselves. But we also know that in many areas of life, it is well advised to have greater faith in people who know more than we do, in experts such as doctors, scientists, plumbers, chess coaches, teachers, and maybe even philosophers.

In this episode of This Is the Way, we explore moral autonomy and moral deference in Confucian philosophy, focusing on Xunzi’s powerful defense of trusting tradition, ritual, and moral experts. We also explore some powerful objections to Xunzi by later Confucians who worried that too much deference to external sources might make real moral understanding -- and thus real moral virtue -- impossible

Justin's short piece on moral deference and "getting it oneself" in Confucian philosophy

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• 3:55 Preface to today's topic
• 9:15 Deference and autonomy in Confucianism

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

What's the best way to fight corruption: harsh laws and fear of punishment or rituals and moral transformation? In this episode we discuss a deep disagreement that takes its inspiration from the political philosophies of the Confucian philosopher Xunzi and the Legalist philosopher Han Feizi. We are also happily joined by Professor Daniel Bell of the University of Hong Kong, one of the world's leading experts in Chinese political thought. Bell reimagines the views of Xunzi and Han Feizi in his book Why Ancient Chinese Political Thought Matters: Four Dialogues on Chinese Past, Present, and Future. There he stages he stages the debate as a dialogue between a modern-day Professor Xun and his student Han Fei, set against the backdrop of the recent anti-corruption campaign in the People's Republic of China. The conversation ranges from the psychology of rewards and punishments to meritocracy, institutional design, the question of whether good governance can ever be decoupled from good character, and whether Confucians might be the true realists after all.

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• 11:54 Preface to today's topic
• 15:00 Confucian vs. Legalist methods of governance

Daniel Bell's professional page

Bell's book, Why Ancient Chinese Political Thought Matters: Four Dialogues...

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

When you hear sad music and feel some sadness in response, is that because the music has successfully carried the sadness of the musician to you as the listener? Or is it better to say that the sadness is in you, released by the music but not "carried" by it? In this show (our second with a live audience), we discuss the music theory of the third-century philosopher Ji Kang 嵆康 (223–262 CE), who argued against the "carrier" view of music and for a more complicated and pluralistic account of the emotional contents of music. We also discuss Ji Kang's interpretation of a famously evocative and mysterious passage in the Zhuangzi, regarding the "piping of Heaven." To guide us in discussing these issues, we lean heavily on our guest, Meilin Chinn of Santa Clara University, a leading expert on the philosophy of music in China.

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• 2:14 Preface to today's topic
• 6:50 Ji Kang on music

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

Is music an extravagance in a world of scarcity or a necessary expression of our humanity? We explore Mozi’s consequentialist condemnation of elaborate musical performances and Xunzi’s argument that music, proper guided, plays a critical role in taming unruly emotions and building social bonds. Beneath the disagreement lies a profound clash over basic human goods, how emotion should be shaped, and whether the arts are dispensable or essential to human flourishing.

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, we explore Zhu Xi’s striking account of how to read philosophical and other important texts with what he calls “reverential attention.” Blending close reading with reflections on learning, character, and distraction in modern life, we discuss how Zhu Xi tries to make reading simultaneously transformative and objective. The discussion raises a fascinating puzzle at the heart of Zhu’s approach: how can we personalize our reading so that it shapes us, while also preventing our own biases from distorting the text?

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website