In this powerful season finale, I bring our exploration of nature, politics, and animal liberation to a profound conclusion by looking to the forest as a model for a just society.

Gregory Tague, a scholar with over two decades of work in environmental and animal ethics, introduces a radical idea: the forest is a sovereign state. It operates not with a single dominant power, but through a complex web of mutual obligations, where inhabitants respect boundaries and avoid confrontation for the collective advantage of all.

We dive into a key excerpt from Tague’s book, Forest Sovereignty, which argues that forest organisms understand something we humans have forgotten: true association isn't about transactional exchanges, but about the net result of sustainability for the entire ecosystem. In this "liberal society" of the forest, stability comes from the diversity of its organisms, all with a free right to resources.

This episode is a call to action. Reflecting on the entire season, we're reminded our struggle for a fairer world has deep roots, and that change, while slow, is possible. The season is retroactively dedicated to all those — vegans, activists, and thinkers — who are pushing boundaries and striving for the liberation of both humans and non-humans.

This is a fitting end to a season challenging us to learn from the ancient, self-sustaining wisdom of the forest and to continue the long, necessary work of building a new, more just existence for all.

Key Takeaways:

Forests as a model for a sustainable, self-governing society.

The concept of "associative duties" we hold towards all wild life.

A powerful message of solidarity for those fighting for liberation.

A compelling conclusion to a season-long discussion on nature and politics.

Listen to the full episode to hear this inspiring conversation and conclude the season with a renewed sense of purpose.

Website/Socials & Books

Gregory F. Tague

Website: https://sites.google.com/site/gftague/

Book: Forest Sovereignty: Wildlife sustainability and ethics (Peter Lang 2025)

Other links

"Sovereign Forests" https://theecologist.org/2025/oct/10/sovereign-forests

Literary Veganism: An online journal https://www.litvegan.net

Emi Leese

https://emilialeese.substack.com

http://thinklikeavegan.com

http://emilialeese.com

Instagram @emi.leese

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thinklikeavegan/videos

Credits

Host: Emilia A. Leese

Guest: Gregory F. Tague

Production & Engineering: Jim Moore of Bloody Vegans Productions; https://www.bloodyvegansproductions.com

Graphics: Catherine Dorrell https://www.messyvegancook.com

Music

Opening theme: “Flashbacks” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

Interlude: "Ōuda Afternoon I" music by Matthew Gerstenberger, voice by Chiyako

Closing theme: “Tear Things Up” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

This podcast is part of iROAR, the Animals Podcasting Network https://iroarpod.com

When disaster strikes – a flood, wildfire, massive quake – most of the headlines understandably focus on the human toll. But what happens to the animals? They are the silent, often invisible victims, and their suffering is deeply intertwined with our own. The bonds between people and their animals and the wildlife sharing our ecosystems mean that when animals suffer, human communities suffer too.

So, how do we break this cycle? How can we provide help and assistance to both people and animals, and work towards preventing these catastrophes, especially those supercharged by climate change?

In this compelling episode, I speak with Altamush Saeed, a dedicated professional working tirelessly on the front lines in Pakistan to do just that. He shares powerful and innovative approaches to building resilient communities protecting all their members irrespective of species.

Join us for a conversation going beyond the headlines to reveal a more compassionate and effective model for disaster response, one which includes the well-being of people and the planet's creatures as one, unified path toward a safer, healthier future for all.

Website/Socials & Books:

Altamush Saeed

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/altamushsaeed

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/altamushsaeed95/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Altamushsaeed95

Case note on the animal rights sentience judgment - https://tinyurl.com/2r256uzv

Other links

Charity Doings Foundation Pakistan

https://twitter.com/CharityDoings

https://www.linkedin.com/company/charity-doings-foundation/

instagram.com/charitydoingsfoundation

https://youtube.com/channel/UCTLoPSGdZb-Qy_1ncAUYkRA

https://www.facebook.com/CharityDoingz/

Environmental and Animal Rights Consultants Pakistan

https://www.facebook.com/EARCPAK

https://www.instagram.com/earcpakistan

https://www.linkedin.com/company/environmental-and-animal-rights-consultants-llp-pakistan/

Emi Leese

https://emilialeese.substack.com

http://thinklikeavegan.com

http://emilialeese.com

Instagram @emi.leese

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thinklikeavegan/videos

Credits

Host: Emilia A. Leese

Guest: Altamush Saeed

Production & Engineering: Jim Moore of Bloody Vegans Productions; https://www.bloodyvegansproductions.com

Graphics: Catherine Dorrell https://www.messyvegancook.com

Music

Opening theme: “Flashbacks” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

Interlude: "Ofusa Fuurin" by Matthew Gerstenberger

Closing theme: “Tear Things Up” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

This podcast is part of iROAR, the Animals Podcasting Network https://iroarpod.com

Ever been told an animal is a "problem"? From the deer in our backyards and the pigeons in our cities to the elephants on their ancestral lands, we constantly label other species as pests, nuisances, and issues to be solved. But what if the real problem isn't the animal themselves, but the way we choose to see them?

In this episode, Claudia Hirtenfelder, host of the acclaimed podcast The Animal Turn and a brilliant geographer, unravels the surprising process of how we "make" animals into problems. She introduces her powerful concept of "problematization" — the social and historical system where animals are first labelled as a problem in our laws and conversations, and then managed, or even removed, because of it.

We'll explore the consequences of this labeling and discover how this framework explains not just the history of cows in one Canadian city, but the global stories of creatures from coyotes and badgers to sea gulls and squirrels. Get ready to have your perspective flipped. Tune in to ask the critical question: When we call an animal a problem, what are we really saying about ourselves?

Website/Socials & Books:

Claudia Hirtenfelder

Podcast: https://www.theanimalturnpodcast.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claudia-hirtenfelder-a360241a

Article: "An analytical framework to understand the problematization of urban (historical) animals" https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/25148486241281227

Other links

Vienna Animal Studies Group: https://www.viennaanimalstudies.com

Phoenix Zones: https://www.phoenixzonesinitiative.org

Transformation Austria: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=10009315345939

Wild crows inhabiting the city use it to their advantage - David Attenborough - BBC wildlife https://youtu.be/BGPGknpq3e0?si=HVn4TpZuTJWOcFTG

Straying Home: A film essay with urban animals https://youtu.be/kfITJ9zDU5w?si=LKHljLvR2nFjt3ne

by just wondering https://justwondering.io/beyond-speciesism-beyond-humanism-beyond/

"Turkey's street-living dogs: Thoughts in light of Turkey's controversial 'adoption' law", by Emilia Leese https://open.substack.com/pub/emilialeese/p/turkeys-street-living-dogs

Emi Leese

https://emilialeese.substack.com

http://thinklikeavegan.com

http://emilialeese.com

Instagram @emi.leese

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thinklikeavegan/videos

Credits

Host: Emilia A. Leese

Guest: Claudia Hirtenfelder

Production & Engineering: Jim Moore of Bloody Vegans Productions; https://www.bloodyvegansproductions.com

Graphics: Catherine Dorrell https://www.messyvegancook.com

Music

Opening theme: “Flashbacks” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

Interlude: "No Time" by Matthew Gerstenberger

Closing theme: “Tear Things Up” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

This podcast is part of iROAR, the Animals Podcasting Network https://iroarpod.com

Join me for a conversation with scholar-activist Amanda Williams as we dismantle the idea of "adult supremacy" and connect it to the broader fight for total liberation. Amanda shows us how our first lessons in power often start with controlling children, and how to turn that awareness into tangible action for a more compassionate world.

Website/Socials & Books

Amanda Williams

Linktree: https://linktr.ee/amandarwilliams

Books by Amanda: The Overprivileged Human; What Can I Do?; Exploring Topics in Non/Human Coexistence

Free Frankie pressure campaign: https://www.kcactionforanimals.org/

Recommended books: Raising our Children, Raising Ourselves by Naomi Aldort; Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn

Other links

"Ten Unschooling Boogeymen And How They're All NBD", by Agni Hogaboom https://buymeacoffee.com/agnihogaboom/ten-unschooling-boogeymen

"Unschooling For Parents Who Don't Unschool", by Agni Hogaboom https://buymeacoffee.com/agnihogaboom/unschooling-for-parents-who-don-unschool-761293

Emi Leese

https://emilialeese.substack.com

http://thinklikeavegan.com

http://emilialeese.com

Instagram @emi.leese

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thinklikeavegan/videos

Credits

Host: Emilia A. Leese

Guest: Amanda Williams

Production & Engineering: Jim Moore of Bloody Vegans Productions; https://www.bloodyvegansproductions.com

Graphics: Catherine Dorrell https://www.messyvegancook.com

Music

Opening theme: “Flashbacks” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

Interlude: "Mushi" by Matthew Gerstenberger

Closing theme: “Tear Things Up” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

This podcast is part of iROAR, the Animals Podcasting Network https://iroarpod.com

What happens when a folklorist goes inside vegan and animal rights communities, not as an outsider looking in, but as someone documenting their lived beliefs? Dr. Ceallaigh MacCath-Moran joins me to discuss her research in St. John’s and Toronto, where she explores veganism as a counter-hegemonic tradition and activism as performative resistance. We delve into how media and academia often misrepresent these movements and why insider voices matter. From Gramsci to grassroots protest, this conversation challenges the idea speciesism is just common sense and asks what justice really sounds like when dissent speaks

Website/socials

Dr. Ceallaigh MacCath-Moran

https://csmaccath.com/home

PhD dissertation https://research.library.mun.ca/16537/

Your Vegan Fallacy Is https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en

https://linktr.ee/csmaccath

Other links

"What's wrong with carnism?" by Dr Corey Wrenn https://www.coreyleewrenn.com/carnism/

Emi Leese

https://emilialeese.substack.com

http://thinklikeavegan.com

http://emilialeese.com

Instagram @emi.leese

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thinklikeavegan/videos

Credits

Host: Emilia A. Leese

Guest: Dr. Ceallaigh S. MacCath-Moran

Production & Engineering: Jim Moore of Bloody Vegans Productions; https://www.bloodyvegansproductions.com

Graphics: Catherine Dorrell https://www.messyvegancook.com

Music

Opening theme: “Flashbacks” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

Interlude: "Kawa" music by Matthew Gerstenberger and voice by Chiyako

Closing theme: “Tear Things Up” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

This podcast is part of iROAR, the Animals Podcasting Network https://iroarpod.com

Roger Yates, a longtime animal rights firebrand, sociologist, and movement historian, cracks open veganism’s radical past. This isn’t just about diet or ethics. It’s about a revolutionary philosophy of total liberation challenging everything. Yates doesn’t just talk theory, he connects the dots to today’s movement in a way that’ll make you reconsider what “vegan” even means. Spoiler: It’s bigger than what you’ve been sold.

Strap in. This one’s for the thinkers, the rebels, and anyone who believes justice must be pro-intersectional. History isn’t just background noise; it’s fuel.

P.S. If you’ve ever argued about “militant vegans” or “the vegan agenda”… oh, you’ll want to hear this.

Website/socials

Roger Yates' YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@RogerYates/streams

Substack: https://substack.com/@drrogeryates

Instagram @roger_yates1

TikTok roger_yates

The Social Construction of Human Beings and Other Animals in Human-Nonhuman Relations https://rogeryatesphd.blogspot.com/

Blog https://onhumanrelationswithothersentientbeings.weebly.com/

Emi Leese

https://emilialeese.substack.com

http://thinklikeavegan.com

http://emilialeese.com

Instagram @emi.leese

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thinklikeavegan/videos

Credits

Host: Emilia A. Leese

Guest: Roger Yates

Production & Engineering: Jim Moore of Bloody Vegans Productions; https://www.bloodyvegansproductions.com

Graphics: Catherine Dorrell https://www.messyvegancook.com

Music

Opening theme: “Flashbacks” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

Interlude: "I Used to Do Lots of Things" by Matthew Gerstenberger

Closing theme: “Tear Things Up” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

This podcast is part of iROAR, the Animals Podcasting Network https://iroarpod.com

Vance Lehmkhul is a vegan renaissance man: writer, journalist, cartoonist, and now, a vegan history detective. His book Revolutionary Peace cracks open the wild, untold story of how Philadelphia became the unlikely birthplace of America’s vegetarian and vegan revolt.

This isn’t just a history lesson. It's a street-level view of radical thinkers who saw food as revolution. We’re talking 18th-century Quakers, 19th-century anarchists, feminist firebrands, and proto-vegan agitators who linked animal liberation to every fight for justice.

Lehmkhul’s work proves something urgent: veganism was never just about diet — it was always political warfare. If you think today’s movements are divisive? Wait till you hear about the original plant-based rebels who scared the hell out of the status quo.

This one is for all history nerds, activists, and anyone tired of watered-down veganism.

Links

Vance Lehmkhul http://www.vegcast.com/vance/

Revolutionary Peace: How Philadelphia Launched the US Vegetarian and Vegan Movement

https://americanvegan.org/product/revolutionary-peace/

Veg History Walking Tours https://americanvegan.org/veg-history-walking-tours/

American Vegan Center https://americanvegan.org/avc/

American Vegan Society https://americanvegan.org

The Return of Benjamin Lay https://www.benjaminlayplay.com

Emi Leese

https://emilialeese.substack.com

http://thinklikeavegan.com

http://emilialeese.com

Instagram @emi.leese

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thinklikeavegan/videos

Credits

Host: Emilia A. Leese

Guest: Vance Lehmkhul

Production & Engineering: Jim Moore of Bloody Vegans Productions; https://www.bloodyvegansproductions.com

Graphics: Catherine Dorrell https://www.messyvegancook.com

Music

Opening theme: “Flashbacks” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

Interlude: "Dappling" by Matthew Gerstenberger

Closing theme: “Tear Things Up” by Jenny Moore’s Mystic Business

This podcast is part of iROAR, the Animals Podcasting Network https://iroarpod.com