When division deepens and confidence in our institutions erodes, ordinary people still have far more influence than we may realize. In this episode, Leigh speaks with author and civic-engagement leader Paul Loeb about citizenship—not as a legal status, but as a civic mindset: the choice to care about what happens beyond our individual lives and to participate in shaping our communities, institutions, and democracy. At its heart, engaged citizenship is an expression of agency—the belief that our choices and actions matter, even in difficult and uncertain times. Their conversation offers a hopeful reminder that each of us can help change what happens next.

Drawing on decades of research and the enduring lessons of his landmark books Soul of a Citizen and The Impossible Will Take A While, Paul offers practical, accessible ways to put that civic mindset into action. He and Leigh explore how to move forward without waiting for perfect circumstances, find courage through community, resist the paralysis of relentless bad news, and sustain hope when progress feels impossible. Leigh and Paul have a spirited discussion - sharing stories of principled action, times when things didn’t always go right, and sorting through the reality that agency matters even when the way ahead is not clear. A key take away is that history often turns because ordinary people decide to participate even amid risk and uncertainty. These are powerful lessons for citizens and leaders who work hard to build connection and alignment in polarized times.

Four Key Themes

1. Citizenship Is Agency in Action: Citizenship extends beyond voting, political affiliation, or legal status. It is the everyday practice of participating in the life of a community. Each of us can examine the roles we hold, the people we know, and the institutions we influence—and decide how to use that power responsibly.

2. Hope Means Acting Without Guarantees: Hope is not certainty that everything will turn out well. It is the willingness to contribute even when results are delayed, unclear, or invisible. An action that appears unsuccessful may still sustain another person, expand what is possible, or become part of a longer arc of change.

3. Perfection Can Become an Excuse for Inaction: Waiting for perfect knowledge, language, timing, or circumstances can keep us from ever beginning. Meaningful participation starts when we take a useful step with what we know and have today—then remain willing to learn, adjust, and repair mistakes along the way.

4. Courage Grows Through Community: Agency becomes stronger when people act together. Communities provide encouragement, protection, and staying power. One person’s brave choice can make it easier for others to follow, allowing small acts to build into collective influence.

Learn more about Paul and his books here: https://www.paulloeb.org/take-awhile/

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Follow Leigh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leigh-morgan-speaks/

Check out Leigh's advisory work: www.imaginal-leadership.com

In this special bonus episode, I follow up on my conversation with Bree Rose, who shared her experience as the mother of Storm, her nonbinary teenager. I wanted to hear Storm’s perspective on their journey, and our conversation was fun, deep, and reminded me that young people today hold incredible wisdom and insight despite a world too often torn by polarization.

Now 17, Storm speaks candidly about beginning to question their gender identity at age 12, the relief of discovering that they did not have to fit into a prescribed box, and the safety they felt knowing their family’s love would not change. They also share what it means to experiment with how they present themselves and navigate a world that does not always make room for people who defy conventional expectations.

Storm brings both honesty and a roundedness far beyond their years to the everyday realities nonbinary and transgender young people can face -- from public scrutiny and other people’s discomfort to the anxiety of deciding which public restroom feels safest. Their experience makes visible the personal consequences of debates that can otherwise feel abstract or purely political. At the same time, Storm’s flourishing is a powerful testament to what becomes possible when someone can live in alignment with who they know themselves to be.

Together, Storm, Bree, and I explore the difference between making an honest mistake and refusing to learn; how families can offer fierce support without being able to protect their children from every hurt; and why grace does not require us to remain silent in the face of prejudice. We also discuss the value of curiosity and the importance of allowing people to tell us who they are.

Despite the challenges, Storm remains hopeful. They draw inspiration from people who advocate for change in ways large and small—from public protest to quiet acts of kindness, courage, and solidarity. Storm’s message is simple and powerful: as long as people keep trying, change remains possible.

In this episode, we explore:

• What Storm experienced when they first began questioning their gender identity
• Why their family’s love and support made it possible to speak openly
• The possibilities and limitations of identity labels
• What it feels like to move through public spaces as a nonbinary young person
• The difference between not yet understanding and refusing to understand
• How grace, learning, and advocacy can coexist
• Why everyday acts of courage give Storm hope

This episode is an invitation to listen to a young person describe their own life in their own words—and to approach complex questions about gender identity with greater curiosity, humility, and humanity.

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Conversations about transgender youth and gender identity increasingly unfold in a highly polarized climate, where deeply personal decisions get pulled into cultural and political conflict. Behind those debates — and ongoing threats to the rights, safety, and well-being of transgender people — are real families trying to support their children and make consequential decisions without the benefit of certainty. In this episode, Leigh talks with Bree Rose about her family's path after her child, Storm, began questioning their gender identity at age 12.

Ultimately, they explore a question that reaches beyond parenting: how do we lead with love and grace when there's no consensus on the right answer? Bree and Leigh talk about staying grounded in values that don't bend, exercising judgment when there is no roadmap, and lessons she learned dealing with judgement from multiple sides.

Bree’s story centers on a mother’s love and a family determined to support and stand by Storm. It is also a story about navigating parental roles, choices about medical care, and the tension between what a child wants and what parents believe is best. Bree is careful to note that what her family experienced, and the choices they made, belong to them alone and that other loving, well-intended families may face different circumstances and reach different conclusions.

In this conversation, Leigh and Bree explore:

• Loving a child without having all the answers. Bree shares her initial uncertainty when Storm first raised the subject, and how she shifted from trying to "solve" the situation to listening, learning, and accompanying her child and other family members on an unfolding journey.
• Supporting identity while navigating parental responsibility. Bree and her husband gave Storm room to explore gender identity while deciding, as a family, that they needed more time before making choices about certain types of medical care — a choice made thoughtfully, not lightly.
• Living with other people's judgment. Bree describes criticism from people who felt her family wasn't supporting Storm in the right way, and how many families often face the opposite: harsh judgment for supporting a transgender child's identity at all.
• Making room for different choices. Their conversation turns to how polarization can convert complicated, deeply personal decisions into harmful tests of allegiance — and why people who care about human dignity can disagree but also continue to center the flourishing and wellbeing of young people and their chosen expressions.

About Bree Rose

Bree is a Seattle-area leader, advocate, philanthropic impact advisor, and certified Dare to Lead™ facilitator whose professional experience spans finance, leadership development, philanthropy, and community engagement.

Permissions & Next Week's Bonus Episode: Bree, Storm, and their family have given permission for their story to be told. Next week's bonus episode features Storm themself, who shares their insights with similar clarity and warmth.

How to Support the Podcast: The Space In Between podcast is growing! Your help will amplify its impact and message. Please take a moment to leave a review and share the podcast with others on via social media and by sending to family, friends and colleagues. Together, we can turn the tide on polarization and stay fierce about values that we hold dear.

What does it really mean to be authentic—and who gets to decide? In this episode of The Space in Between, host Leigh Morgan talks with author, political strategist, and podcast host Maya Rupert about how race, gender, identity, and power influence who is perceived as “real,” trustworthy, and qualified.

Drawing from her book, The Real Ones: How to Disrupt the Hidden Ways Racism Makes Us Less Authentic, Maya challenges the idea that authenticity is simply a matter of “being yourself.” She and Leigh explore how code-switching and adapting to different environments can reflect awareness and agency—not dishonesty. In today’s divided and distrustful climate, understanding these dynamics can help us recognize the conditions shaping our choices while still acting from a place of clarity, dignity, and power.

Topics Leigh & Maya Explore

• Societal norms and dynamics influence perceptions of authenticity.
• The dynamics behind code-switching.
• How bias shapes our judgments of leaders.
• How grace, humility, and accountability can strengthen public life.

Key Takeaways

• Authenticity is not a fixed identity waiting to be uncovered. It develops through experience, reflection, relationships, and changing circumstances.
• Code-switching can be a strategic response to real social conditions. The important question is whether we are making conscious choices or losing contact with ourselves.
• Feeling misunderstood does not necessarily mean we have failed to be authentic. Sometimes the discomfort or incongruence exists in the observer’s expectations and biases.
• Authenticity can require effort. Working to live according to our values does not make those values less genuine.
• Agency includes knowing when to engage, when to step away, and when to ask an ally to enter a conversation that we do not have the safety or capacity to hold.
• Perceptions of identity, especially those outwardly expressed (race, ethnicity, gender identity, age, etc) must be acknowledged as influencing and shaping perceptions of authenticity.

Why This Matters

In polarized times, people are hungry for leaders who seem “real.” But when authenticity is poorly defined or we aren't aware of its variability, bias can quietly determine who receives trust, forgiveness, and the benefit of the doubt. By asking better questions—What do we mean by authentic? What assumptions are influencing our judgment? What conditions shape how someone shows up?—we can become more discerning citizens, more humane leaders, and more powerful agents in our own lives.

Practices to Try

• Interrogate your first assumptions: What you believed or wanted earlier in life is not automatically your most authentic truth. Give yourself permission to learn, reconsider, and grow.
• Ask the second question: When someone seems inauthentic, pause and ask what is creating that reaction. Is the person being dishonest—or are they behaving differently from what you expected?
• Lead with grace and humility: Remember that you rarely know another person’s full internal journey. Extend grace where human dignity and safety are present, while maintaining clear boundaries where they are not.

About Maya Rupert



Maya Rupert is an author, political strategist, and former presidential campaign leader whose work explores race, gender, power, and democracy. She is the author of The Real Ones: How to Disrupt the Hidden Ways Racism Makes Us Less Authentic and the host of the NAACP Image Award–nominated podcast When We Win, a limited series featuring women of color who successfully challenged political conventions and transformed the way campaigns are run.

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What does it take to stay in the game when life doesn't go your way? In this engaging and deeply personal conversation, Space In Between host Leigh Morgan welcomes back longtime friend, former tech CEO, author, TEDx speaker, and fellow Duke University athlete Everett Harper for a conversation that begins on the playing field—but quickly expands into leadership, resilience, and what it means to stay connected in turbulent times.

Drawing on stories from their years competing at Duke—Everett as a national championship soccer player and Leigh as a standout point guard for the Blue Devils—they revisit memorable victories, painful losses, difficult teammates, legendary competitors, and the coaches who shaped them. Together, they explore how the lessons learned in elite athletics continue to influence the way they lead organizations, navigate adversity, and show up for others.

At a time when many people feel exhausted by polarization, uncertainty, and declining trust, Leigh and Everett offer a refreshing reminder that resilience isn't a solo pursuit. Staying in the game requires agency, connection, humility, and the willingness to lean on teammates when the pressure is greatest. Through laughter, candid storytelling, and thoughtful reflection, they reveal why some of life's most enduring leadership lessons were learned long before either stepped into the executive suite.

In this solo episode of The Space in Between host Leigh Morgan explores how to stay awake, engaged, and fully human in a time when fear, outrage, political division, and emotional overwhelm can sometimes constrict our capacity to lead and be our fullest selves. Drawing from her own experience responding to the 2025 dismantling of USAID, Leigh reflects on what happens when we care deeply about suffering in the world — but find ourselves consumed by doomscrolling, dread, and the constant churn of unsettling headlines. The episode offers a powerful invitation to creating inner spaciousness, where we stay awake, but do not let fear consume us.

Leigh shares practices to feel grief without drowning in it, hold conviction without hardening, and reclaim agency even when we cannot control the outcome. She shares her personal journey, reflecting on her global development work in sub-Saharan Africa and northeastern India, insights from psychology, and how a powerful podcast conversation with Kaye Foster about reflective practice, leadership, and hope helped her remember and reclaim agency. The result is a timely and deeply human reflection on how we keep our hearts open, our minds clear, and our spirits steady in chaotic times.

Key messages:

• Fear is human, but it does not have to lead - Leigh names fear, dread, and grief as normal responses to real suffering and real uncertainty. The goal is not to deny those feelings, but to keep them from occupying more space inside us than we want to give them.
• Negativity bias and emotional contagion are real - Our brains are wired to notice threat, and our social systems often amplify fear, outrage, and grievance. Understanding these dynamics helps us respond with more awareness and less reactivity.
• Doomscrolling can feel like responsibility, but left unchecked can become constriction - Staying informed matters. But there is a difference between learning what we need to know and repeatedly consuming information that leaves us depleted, anxious, or numb.
• Agency is not always about controlling the outcome - Leigh reminds us that agency does not mean we can single-handedly change policy or prevent suffering. Sometimes agency begins with reclaiming our inner ground — how we breathe, what we notice, where we place our attention, and how we choose to show up.
• Inner spaciousness is where personal and collective agency can flourish - Inner spaciousness allows us to bear witness, work for justice, remain connected, and resist becoming hardened by fear or despair.

Check out the detailed show notes on the Space In Between website: http://spaceinbetweenpodcast.com/culvivating-inner-spaciousness/

What happens when data challenges something you deeply believe — something that has shaped your identity, your work, and your moral compass? In this episode of The Space In Between, Leigh sits down with Alice Shobe for a powerful conversation about feminism, boys and men, blind spots, and what it takes to expand our frame without abandoning our convictions.

Alice has spent her life pushing into spaces that were not designed for women and building pathways of opportunity for people too often left out. But when she read Richard Reeves’ Of Boys and Men, she found herself confronted by data she could not ignore: boys falling behind in education, men dying by suicide at alarming rates, and men drifting away from many of the caregiving and service professions society urgently needs. Rather than see this as a threat to her commitment to women’s equality, Alice began asking a harder question: what am I not seeing?

Episode Overview

In this conversation, Leigh and Alice explore what it means to hold two truths at once: that women and girls still face real barriers to equality and opportunity, and that boys and men are also struggling in ways that deserve serious, compassionate, evidence-based attention. Alice shares how her own story — from being the only girl on an all-boys hockey team after Title IX, to growing up as a fraternal twin with a brother, to leading in corporate and nonprofit spaces — shaped her commitment to opportunity. She also reflects on what it was like to raise the topic of boys and men inside women-centered spaces, where the reaction was often mixed, protective, and deeply human.

Key Themes:

• Alice's op-ed for the Puget Sound Business Journal Leadership "Expert Confronts Blind Spot After Decades Championing Women's Opportunity"
• How new data can reveal blind spots without requiring us to abandon our values
• Why personal story can open conversations that data alone cannot
• What it means to be willing to be misunderstood in service of a larger truth
• How “yes, and” can help us stay curious in moments of discomfort or disagreement

Main Discussion Points (see full show notes at http://spaceinbetweenpodcast.com/when-conviction-expands-with-alice-shobe/)

1. Expanding the frame without abandoning conviction

2. What the data reveals about boys and men

3. The emotional complexity of being misunderstood

4. Practicing “yes, and” in a polarized world without giving ourselves away

Why This Conversation Matters

We live in a time when many public conversations push us into either/or thinking: either you care about women or you care about men, either you stay loyal to your cause or you are betraying it. Alice’s story offers a different path. She reminds us that conviction can expand, that curiosity can strengthen rather than weaken our values, and that asking “what am I not seeing?” may be one of the most important leadership practices of our time.

About Alice Shobe

Alice Shobe is a respected leader whose career has focused on expanding opportunity, strengthening communities, and addressing inequities across the corporate, nonprofit, housing, homelessness, philanthropy, and workforce development sectors. She has held senior leadership roles at Amazon and in the nonprofit sector, serves on the board of Jobs for the Future, and is a founding board member of the American Institute for Boys and Men. A longtime advocate for women’s equality and opportunity, Alice brings to this conversation a rare combination of moral clarity, humility, and curiosity.