What happens when data challenges something you deeply believe — something that has shaped your identity, your work, and your moral compass? In this episode of The Space In Between, Leigh sits down with Alice Shobe for a powerful conversation about feminism, boys and men, blind spots, and what it takes to expand our frame without abandoning our convictions.

Alice has spent her life pushing into spaces that were not designed for women and building pathways of opportunity for people too often left out. But when she read Richard Reeves’ Of Boys and Men, she found herself confronted by data she could not ignore: boys falling behind in education, men dying by suicide at alarming rates, and men drifting away from many of the caregiving and service professions society urgently needs. Rather than see this as a threat to her commitment to women’s equality, Alice began asking a harder question: what am I not seeing?

Episode Overview

In this conversation, Leigh and Alice explore what it means to hold two truths at once: that women and girls still face real barriers to equality and opportunity, and that boys and men are also struggling in ways that deserve serious, compassionate, evidence-based attention. Alice shares how her own story — from being the only girl on an all-boys hockey team after Title IX, to growing up as a fraternal twin with a brother, to leading in corporate and nonprofit spaces — shaped her commitment to opportunity. She also reflects on what it was like to raise the topic of boys and men inside women-centered spaces, where the reaction was often mixed, protective, and deeply human.

Key Themes:

• Alice's op-ed for the Puget Sound Business Journal Leadership "Expert Confronts Blind Spot After Decades Championing Women's Opportunity"
• How new data can reveal blind spots without requiring us to abandon our values
• Why personal story can open conversations that data alone cannot
• What it means to be willing to be misunderstood in service of a larger truth
• How “yes, and” can help us stay curious in moments of discomfort or disagreement

Main Discussion Points (see full show notes at http://spaceinbetweenpodcast.com/when-conviction-expands-with-alice-shobe/)

1. Expanding the frame without abandoning conviction

2. What the data reveals about boys and men

3. The emotional complexity of being misunderstood

4. Practicing “yes, and” in a polarized world without giving ourselves away

Why This Conversation Matters

We live in a time when many public conversations push us into either/or thinking: either you care about women or you care about men, either you stay loyal to your cause or you are betraying it. Alice’s story offers a different path. She reminds us that conviction can expand, that curiosity can strengthen rather than weaken our values, and that asking “what am I not seeing?” may be one of the most important leadership practices of our time.

About Alice Shobe

Alice Shobe is a respected leader whose career has focused on expanding opportunity, strengthening communities, and addressing inequities across the corporate, nonprofit, housing, homelessness, philanthropy, and workforce development sectors. She has held senior leadership roles at Amazon and in the nonprofit sector, serves on the board of Jobs for the Future, and is a founding board member of the American Institute for Boys and Men. A longtime advocate for women’s equality and opportunity, Alice brings to this conversation a rare combination of moral clarity, humility, and curiosity.