Connect with Dr. Amy Fogelman

Website: https://www.highrockexperts.com

High Rock Academy: Medical expert witness training and education

Connect with Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP®

Website: https://www.bryanjepson.com

The Second Shift Podcast: https://www.2ndshiftpodcast.com

Financial Planning: https://www.targetedwealthsolutions.com

About This Episode

What if the skills you need for your next career are the very skills you've spent decades developing?

After 20 years practicing internal medicine, Dr. Amy Fogelman found herself burned out, anxious, and struggling to imagine life outside clinical medicine. It took three simple words from her husband — "You can stop" — to help her recognize that leaving medicine was an option.

But what would she do next?

Instead of pursuing another degree, Amy took six months to explore possibilities, connect with mentors, and discover the value of skills she already possessed. Today, she's the founder of High Rock Experts and High Rock Academy, connecting attorneys with qualified medical experts and teaching physicians how to succeed in medical-legal consulting.

In this episode of The Second Shift, Amy and Bryan explore physician identity, the emotional challenges of career transitions, and why developing interests outside clinical practice may actually protect against burnout.

Amy believes physicians have superpowers — critical thinking, problem-solving, communication, and relationship-building skills that translate into countless opportunities beyond the exam room.

They also discuss the practical side of medical expert witness work, including how to get started, earning potential, and why it can be intellectually rewarding even for physicians who continue practicing medicine.

Amy's story reminds us that changing careers doesn't mean starting over. Your experience isn't wasted. It may be exactly what prepares you for what's next.

In This Episode

00:00 – Introduction: A physician's hidden superpowers

04:32 – Amy's journey into medicine and expert witness work

07:16 – Imposter syndrome and recognizing your expertise

11:49 – Burnout, perfectionism, and loss of control

15:00 – "You can stop": Recognizing the need for change

17:26 – Taking six months to explore new possibilities

20:18 – Entrepreneurship and building High Rock Experts

23:17 – How burnout affects the people we love

27:08 – Physician identity and the fear of leaving medicine

29:27 – Why professional variety can prevent burnout

33:19 – Ethics and credibility in medical expert witness work

38:18 – Expert witness compensation and opportunities

43:13 – Becoming an entrepreneur without a business degree

49:44 – Redefining identity and finding flexibility

53:06 – What Amy misses about clinical medicine

56:18 – What's next for Amy?

57:00 – Defining wealth through relationships, not achievements

59:42 – Bryan's five closing takeaways

Hashtags

#TheSecondShift #PhysicianCareerTransition #PhysicianBurnout #PhysicianEntrepreneur #MedicalExpertWitness #LifeAfterMedicine #CareerReinvention #PhysicianIdentity

Learn more about Dr. Jimmy Turner:
moneymeetsmedicine.com

Connect with Bryan:
bryanjepson.com
bryan@targetedwealthsolutions.com

What is financial independence actually for?

For Dr. Jimmy Turner, the answer isn’t necessarily early retirement. It’s autonomy—the freedom to decide how much you work, what kind of work you do, and how you spend your time.

Jimmy is a practicing anesthesiologist and the founder of Money Meets Medicine. His path into physician finance began with his own financial mistakes and a desire to help other physicians avoid making the same ones. What started as a side business eventually became something much more important: a source of flexibility when burnout and disappointment disrupted the career path he thought he would follow.

In this conversation, we talk about the achievement treadmill in medicine, the “arrival fallacy” that keeps us chasing the next milestone, and why reaching financial independence—or even retirement—doesn’t automatically create a meaningful life. We also explore why it’s important to understand what is actually making you unhappy before assuming that changing jobs or leaving medicine will solve the problem.

Jimmy offers an alternative to the traditional FIRE mindset: FIWO—Financial Independence, Work Optional. The goal isn’t necessarily to stop working. It’s to reach a point where work becomes a choice, giving you the freedom to practice medicine on your terms, pursue something new, or reshape your career as your priorities change.

Ultimately, this conversation is about using money for something more valuable than simply accumulating wealth: creating the autonomy to build a life and career you actually want.

04:34 — How Jimmy’s financial mistakes led him into physician financial education
12:34 — Finding a second-shift idea: What do people naturally come to you for?
18:53 — Why it helps to build options before you burn out
20:21 — When Jimmy’s expected academic career path changed
23:54 — The physician achievement treadmill and the “arrival fallacy”
26:51 — Why dramatically cutting back clinical work initially made Jimmy less happy
29:01 — Burnout, purpose, and why diagnosing the real problem matters
32:56 — Learning to enjoy the process instead of chasing the next achievement
36:20 — What entrepreneurship taught Jimmy about failure
38:14 — Beyond FIRE: Why the purpose of money is autonomy
39:10 — FIWO: Financial Independence, Work Optional
43:23 — Why financial independence may actually extend a physician’s career
45:46 — Before changing careers, diagnose what is actually making you unhappy
51:17 — Testing a second career before leaving medicine
54:14 — Designing an ideal week as your priorities change
57:11 — Jimmy’s definition of true wealth
58:00 — Coast FIRE and living your ideal life before financial independence
1:00:38 — Don’t wait to start enjoying the journey
1:00:59 — Five lessons from the conversation

#TheSecondShift #JimmyTurner #MoneyMeetsMedicine #FinancialIndependence #FIWO #FIRE #PhysicianFinance #PhysicianBurnout #CareerTransition #PhysicianEntrepreneur #TrueWealth

Learn more or connect with Thom: Thommayermd.com

Listen to other episodes: 2ndshiftpodcast.com

More physician finance content: bryanjepson.com

Dr. Thom Mayer has never followed a conventional career path. His journey has taken him from college football and emergency medicine to national healthcare leadership, disaster response, professional sports, writing, teaching, and his current role as medical director of the NFL Players Association. Through every transition, he has remained guided by a central question: Where can I have the greatest impact?

In this episode, Thom shares stories and lessons from a career built around saying yes to unexpected opportunities. We discuss how physicians can recognize the transferable skills they have developed, trust themselves when the next step does not come with a clear roadmap, and use failure as fuel for continued growth. Thom also offers a powerful perspective on burnout—not simply as exhaustion, but as the inability to feel our “deep joy.”

This conversation goes beyond career achievement. It is about evolving as our sources of meaning change, finding purpose in both joyful and painful moments, and remembering that true wealth is ultimately measured through wisdom, hope, relationships, and the way we treat the people around us.

Useful links:

https://www.acep.org/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mfraserdc1/

bryanjepson.com

2ndshiftpodcast.com

What separates great leaders from great performers?

Most of us spend our careers learning how to become experts. Far fewer learn how to become leaders.

In this episode of The Second Shift, I sit down with Dr. Mike Fraser, CEO of the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP), to explore one of the most important career transitions professionals ever make: the shift from individual achievement to developing others.

Mike shares lessons from leading national physician organizations, building high-performing teams, and helping professionals navigate career transitions. Along the way, we discuss why relationships matter more than résumés, how to create a culture of ownership, why emergency physicians are uniquely suited for second careers, and how our definition of a wealthy life evolves over time.

Whether you're leading a team, considering your next career chapter, or simply trying to build a life of greater purpose, this conversation offers practical wisdom that extends far beyond medicine.

• Why great leaders build people—not just teams
• The difference between management and leadership
• How relationships shape career opportunities
• Lessons on burnout, career longevity, and second shifts
• Why defining "enough" creates freedom
• How legacy ultimately becomes more important than achievement

Over the first ten episodes of The Second Shift, one lesson has surfaced again and again: financial independence isn't really about retiring early.

It's about creating options.

In this episode, Bryan and Aaron step back from the interviews to explore one of the biggest themes emerging from their guests' stories. Why do so few financially independent people actually stop working? What changes when money is no longer the primary driver of your decisions? And how can financial independence help you build a career—and a life—that better reflects your values?

Along the way, they discuss:

• Why optionality may be more valuable than retirement

• The difference between freedom and leisure

• Lessons from the FIRE movement

• How financial independence changes the way you work long before you retire

• Why good financial planning should create choices—not just a retirement date

Whether you're years away from retirement or simply wondering what's next, this conversation challenges the traditional view of financial independence and offers a more meaningful definition of wealth.

Financial independence doesn't buy retirement. It buys the freedom to choose what comes next.

Connect with Dr. Foltz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-foltz/ or logan@taxsmartmd.com. Or learn more on his website: https://www.taxsmartmd.com/

Link to more episode of the podcast and download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com

Many physicians dream of the day they become financially independent. But what happens when you finally reach that goal—and discover it's not the finish line you expected?

In this episode, I sit down with psychiatrist-turned-tax advisor Dr. Logan Foltz to discuss his unconventional journey out of clinical medicine. After recognizing early in his career that medicine wasn't the right fit, Logan pursued financial independence with the goal of retiring young. But once he stepped away, he realized that freedom alone wasn't enough.

Our conversation explores the psychology of career transitions, the challenge of finding purpose after financial independence, and why discovering your second shift is often a process rather than a single decision. We also discuss the importance of alignment, autonomy, networking, entrepreneurship, and learning to define what "enough" really means.

Whether you're considering retirement, a career change, or simply wondering what's next, this episode is a reminder that the journey doesn't end when work becomes optional—it often begins there.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why medicine wasn't the right fit for Logan
• Discovering financial independence and the FIRE movement
• Why early retirement wasn't what he expected
• The importance of purpose after financial independence
• Transitioning from medicine to financial planning and ultimately tax advising
• Why physicians often struggle with entrepreneurship
• The role of autonomy in career satisfaction
• Learning to define what "enough" really means

If you enjoy these conversations, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast with someone who may be preparing for their own second shift.