My conversation with David Perell, host of the "How I Write" podcast and a truly prolific creator, took my understanding to a whole new level. He's one of the few people who has consistently challenged my thinking on how we communicate ideas effectively. In this episode, I dove deep with David into critical questions like: Does writing still hold its weight in today's crowded digital landscape? What specific elements should creators prioritize to make their words resonate? And importantly, how do you stand out when everyone else is shouting? David shares his incredible insights into the craft of writing, the power of observation, and his unique philosophy on identifying and leveraging "currents" to amplify your message. This was easily one of my favorite conversations on the show.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction

01:15 Obsessed with the Craft of Writing

02:45 The "Bit" as a Writing Concept

05:10 Why People Struggle with Writing

07:11 From Seeking Attention to Having Something to Say

10:40 The Discipline of Public Writing

13:58 Capturing and Curating Ideas

20:05 Riding Internet Currents

26:50 Identifying and Leveraging Currents

32:10 Tying Timeless Ideas to Timely Moments

39:15 Uncorrelated Sources of Inspiration

45:36 The "How I Write" Podcast

47:20 Production Value and Set Design

1:00:40 YouTube Growth and Packaging

1:04:40 The Guest Maximization Strategy

1:10:00 Creating "The Modern World" Series

1:16:00 The Modern Pollution of Man-Made Environment

1:19:30 Interplay of the Creator Economy and the Modern World

1:22:15 Creating the World You Want to Live In

1:29:26 Using Art and History to Hone Taste

1:34:00 The Soul-Stirring Work

1:35:40 Where to Find David

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry

X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow

Website: https://nathanbarry.com

Kit: https://www.kit.com

Follow David:

X: https://twitter.com/david_perell

Website: https://www.perell.com

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidperell

Featured in this episode:

Kit: https://www.kit.com

Modern World (YouTube Channel): https://www.youtube.com/@TheModernWorld

Building a Second Brain: https://www.buildingasecondbrain.com

The Artist's Way: https://juliacameronlive.com/books/the-artists-way

Highlights:

01:15 – The obsession with writing as a craft.

20:05 – Understanding and leveraging internet "currents" for content.

40:30 – Why consuming uncorrelated content elevates your work.

59:20 – The art of deep communication in interviewing.

1:29:26 – Cultivating taste by actively discerning what you love and hate.

I recently sat down with my speaking coach, Mike Pacchione, for this totally unprecedented episode where we dissect, minute by minute, my full keynote speech from this year's Craft + Commerce conference. We’re not holding anything back. Mike points out my flaws, celebrates my strengths, and reveals all the chaos that happens backstage that the audience never sees. If you've ever delivered a product launch, feared public speaking, or just want to understand the art of a compelling presentation, you'll learn so much from our candid conversation.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:03 Breaking Down the Keynote
02:22 The Chaos Before the Stage
04:02 The Missing Walk-Out Music
07:44 The "Be a Zero" Concept
09:47 Avoiding Speaker Voice
13:17 Building Tension and Specificity
19:19 The Stephen Colbert Joke
20:52 The Dad's Wisdom Story
28:16 The Challenge of Technical Terms
34:03 Debating Product Announcement Timing
40:35 The Elusive Applause Moment
48:29 Katie's Spotlighting an Audience Member
53:05 The Landing Page Humiliation Slide
01:01:00 The New York City Event Space Announcement
01:07:07 The Closing and Audience Reaction
01:12:00 Rehearsal Techniques and Speaker Notes

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com
Kit: https://kit.com

Follow Mike:
Freebie: https://bestspeech.co/nathan
Website: https://bestspeech.co
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpacchione
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mpacc
X: https://x.com/mpacc

Featured in this episode:
Kit: https://www.kit.com
John Koenig - The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows: https://www.youtube.com/user/johnkoenig
The State Change Method - Wes Kao: https://weskao.com
The Happiness Project - Gretchen Rubin: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-happiness-project
Tim Urban TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/tim_urban_inside_the_mind_of_a_master_procrastinator
Framer: https://www.framer.com

Highlights:
01:03 – Mike critiques my keynote opening
11:50 – The secret behind my opening pause
25:06 – How real-world stories prove product value
31:09 – The unexpected success of a borrowed joke
53:10 – The power of a critical feedback slide

I've always brought Mike Pacchione in to coach every speaker at my Craft + Commerce conferences, including myself, because he has an uncanny ability to help people transform their talks from good to truly great. Mike's number one goal? For the audience to forget it's even a speech. In our conversation, Mike unpacks his framework for crafting compelling stories, why you should almost never tell them in chronological order, and his genius TED acronym for tension, editing for emotional impact, and the right details. He also shares invaluable insights on designing an ending that resonates and even how to strategically use humor (especially if you're not naturally funny). This episode is packed with lessons I've learned firsthand from Mike over the years.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
02:00 Making the audience forget it's a speech
04:06 Setting the room up for success
06:14 The power of stories in speeches
08:39 Story selection and placement
10:42 Why you don't need to tell stories in order
11:11 Mike's TED acronym for storytelling: Tension
14:55 Editing for emotional impact
20:02 Crafting an engaging middle of a speech
22:57 Asking questions to build tension
24:37 Describing people in vivid detail (loglines)
30:48 Crafting a powerful ending
33:09 The "one more thing" strategy
40:07 Controlling the emotional arc of a talk
40:50 Using humor effectively
44:09 The power of awkward silence and tension
45:53 Cueing the audience for laughs and applause
48:14 Leading the audience with your emotions
50:57 Mike's take on using AI for speeches
55:24 How to work with Mike Pacchione
56:47 Mike's free resource

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com
Kit: https://www.kit.com

Follow Mike:
Freebie: https://bestspeech.co/nathan
Website: https://bestspeech.co
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpacchione
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mpacc
X: https://x.com/mpacc

Featured in this episode:
Kit: https://www.kit.com
Duarte: https://www.duarte.com
Atomic Habits: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits
WP Engine: https://wpengine.com
ConvertKit: https://convertkit.com

Highlights:
02:01 – Getting the audience to forget it's a speech
15:30 – Ending your story in the middle for maximum impact
26:06 – Sarah: The person who eats quinoa for a cheat meal
37:05 – Why you should never end your talk on Q&A
53:02 – The point of a speech is to make an emotional connection