Soft skills: everyone talks about them, few people define them, and even fewer get help building them. In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the nuanced world of interpersonal and emotional intelligence—the unspoken skills that make or break how we collaborate, lead, and show up at work.

From navigating conflict and giving feedback to facilitating meetings and reading the room, they explore why soft skills often surface in high-stakes moments... and why most training programs barely scratch the surface.

They share real talk on:

• Whether soft skills are innate or learned
• Why these abilities require practice, not just theory
• How to start small and build confidence in safe spaces
• And how to listen to podcasts, panels, or even reality shows with a soft-skills lens

This episode is a reminder that emotional intelligence isn’t fluff—it’s foundational. And like any skill, it can be trained, strengthened, and occasionally pulled in for emergency use.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the often overlooked power of Project, Program, and Operations Managers (PMs), the PMs who hold organizations together behind the scenes. As companies cut budgets, these critical roles are frequently the first to go. However, eliminating the very people who create clarity, enable execution, and manage complexity can have long-term consequences.

This episode defines the distinctions between PM roles and highlights the invisible, high-impact work they do, like change management, stakeholder alignment, and process improvement. It challenges the myth that PMs are just about checklists. Indra and Amanda also share how these roles are evolving, the communities shifting the conversation, and why investing in strong PMs is investing in your company’s ability to deliver.

Useful Links:

• Generalist World: https://www.generalist.world/
• Designops Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/company/designops-assembly
• Levels of Program & Operations Management: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17C_0-ITv4Sh3baLtnILEgImAEftDnd1uUjHo4Hpycss/edit?usp=sharing
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

Sometimes it takes an outsider to say what everyone on the inside is thinking but can’t express. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the value and complexity of bringing in consultants, agencies, and subject matter experts to say the quiet thing out loud. They explore how power dynamics, organizational culture, and fear of professional consequences can keep internal voices silent and why external perspectives can cut through the noise.

Through real-world examples from their careers, they highlight:

• The benefits of outsider objectivity and “fresh eyes”
• When and how to bring in external voices for maximum impact
• The risks and resentments that can arise in these dynamics
• Practical tips for using consultants without eroding team trust.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback