In this insightful episode of The Leadership Pause, hosts Neil Jacobs and Dr. Taylere Markewich delve into the topic of money psychology and its profound influence on leadership. The hosts begin by sharing their own money scripts, the psychological narratives around finances formed in their childhoods. Their personal revelations set the stage for an illuminating conversation with guest expert Dr. Kathleen Gounaris, an executive coach and clinical and financial psychologist with over 25 years of experience specializing in behavioral finance.

Dr. Gounaris explains how financial psychology operates as an invisible hand influencing decisions, which can follow two common patterns: risk-taking leaders becoming overconfident and susceptible to confirmation bias, or overly cautious leaders being perceived as pessimistic despite necessary prudence. She discusses why money is such a hot button issue, noting its deep connection to self-identity and self-worth regardless of whether one grew up with abundance or scarcity. Throughout the interview, Dr. Gounaris offers practical advice for leaders on acknowledging economic diversity within teams, creating space for conversations about organizational finances, and helping team members focus on what they can control during times of economic uncertainty. She emphasizes that developing financial self-awareness begins with reflecting on earliest money memories and observing one's behavior and language around finances with curiosity.

The episode also features the hosts' monthly pause, with Taylere sharing insights from her restorative trip to Europe and Neil discussing his work with a client examining the disconnect between stated values. The conversation highlights how money psychology influences not just personal financial decisions but organizational leadership styles as well. The hosts announce that next month's episode will focus on knowing your why and how understanding personal motivations impacts leadership effectiveness. Listeners are encouraged to email their questions and show suggestions to info@mindsopen.co.

Credits

Show editing by Jack Taylor

In this episode of The Leadership Pause, host Neil Jacobs turns to an unexpected source for insights about leadership - the world of animal behavior. Listen as he explores the learning human leaders can derive from non-humans with guest Dr. Robert Shumaker, evolutionary biologist and CEO at the Indianapolis Zoo. Gain rare insights into how understanding animal behavior and cognition can enhance human leadership and recognize the parallels and distinctions with your own ways of leading.

Explore the dynamic interplay of collaboration and self-interest, inspired by the majestic lions of Tanzania. Learn how to harness non-human perspectives to enhance teamwork and achieve organizational success. Through thought-provoking discussions, delve into the essence of genuine contribution, fair recognition, and the intriguing concept of altruism. Riveting stories of great apes illustrate the power of authenticity and direct engagement in leadership.

Reflect on the adaptability and humility required in today's evolving leadership landscape. Gain wisdom from the natural world, from the leadership of an elephant matriarch to the influence and mediation skills of female chimpanzees. Examine the pitfalls of extreme leadership styles and the importance of flexibility in maintaining creativity and stability. Through the insights of host Neil Jacobs and guest Dr. Rob Shumaker, you'll expand your leadership perspective, embracing diverse viewpoints to foster innovation and growth. Join us on this journey of learning and share your thoughts as we explore the profound lessons of leadership from the animal kingdom.

About Dr. Robert Shumaker

Dr. Robert W. Shumaker is an evolutionary biologist who specializes in the study of behavior and cognition. He started his career at the Smithsonian National Zoo. During his 20-year tenure there, Dr. Shumaker worked as an animal keeper, curator, biologist, exhibit designer, and scientist. He spent several years at the Great Ape Trust in Des Moines, Iowa as the senior scientist supervising all research with orangutans. In 2010 he moved to the Indianapolis Zoo where he is now the President & CEO.

Dr. Shumaker has been a faculty member at George Mason University and Drake University, and an affiliate faculty member at Iowa State University. He is an external research associate at the Krasnow Institute and an adjunct professor at Indiana University.

Dr. Shumaker has authored or co-authored numerous scientific publications, books, and articles for the popular press. The third edition of Animal Tool Behavior was published in December. His work has been featured in National Geographic, NPR, the Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, PBS, Time magazine, and the BBC.

Dr. Shumaker serves on the science advisory board of the Balikpapan Orangutan Society (BOS) which is based in Indonesia, in the same capacity for BOS Canada in Toronto, and as a board member of the Orangutan Conservancy, based in the United States. He is internationally recognized as an expert on primate behavior and cognition and on animal tool behavior.

In this episode, hosts Neil Jacobs and Dr. Taylere Markewich discuss the upsides and pitfalls of pursuing likability in leadership. They are joined by HR executive Deeena Goodman, Vice President and HR Business Partner at PGIM Real Estate. Deena shares her insights and experiences on the topic from a number of vantage points including her work in the People function and her background as a licensed clinical social work and a singer-songwriter.

The episode addresses the significance of likability in the context of leadership, its implications on influence and power, and how it interacts with competence. The hosts explore societal and generational trends in likability and discuss the gender disparities that influence perceptions of competence and likeability. Listener to the podcast receive practical tips, emphasizing the importance of balancing genuine connection and expertise. The episode reflects on how even some of the toughest, most performance-driven organizational cultures have shifted to value empathy, openness and authenticity in leadership.

About Deena Goodman
Deena began her career in HR in 2012, when she launched her executive coaching practice, combining her background in Public Relations, acting, and clinical social work to help leaders enhance their executive presence and learn to lead with influence. Since 2018, Deena has worked exclusively for PGIM Real Estate, Prudential’s Global Real Estate Investment platform, where she leads the HR Function for the US Equity business and global corporate functions as well as PGIM Private Alternative’s Business Development platform. This opportunity has widened Deena’s exposure to leaders across functions and solidified Deena’s passion for working with leadership to drive business objectives forward through a thoughtful approach to talent development and organizational design. Prior to her work in the world of leadership development, Deena spent her days writing and playing music in New York City and Los Angeles and then working in the field of Clinical Social Work treating adolescents with severe mental health diagnoses. For this reason, Deena continues to be a big proponent of diversity in the workplace and knows that varied life and work experience leads to better business outcomes. Deena lives in South Orange, New Jersey with her husband, Josh, and three kids who keep her on her toes on a day to day basis.