『The Intangible Brand』のカバーアート

The Intangible Brand

The Intangible Brand

著者： TOKY & Cline
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Welcome to The Intangible Brand, where we explore the connection between employee experience and client experience, and the hidden forces that make brands stick. Each episode offers practical insights and inspiration for building a brand people are proud to work for — and eager to work with.


The Intangible Brand is brought to you by Cline and TOKY.


Say hello@theintangiblebrand.com

© 2026 TOKY Group, Inc. and Cline Design Associates マネジメント マネジメント・リーダーシップ マーケティング マーケティング・セールス 経済学
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  • Ep29 Why The Best Engineers Used To Hide | Brad Thurman

    Ep29 Why The Best Engineers Used To Hide | Brad Thurman
    2026/08/26

    Watch the video on YouTube

    For decades, the unwritten rule in structural engineering was to stay invisible. Brad Thurman built a career proving that wrong.

    In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Julie Hammond sit down with Brad Thurman, Principal and Chief Marketing Officer at Wallace Design Collective, to talk about what happens when an engineer decides the firm's brand matters as much as its work.

    Brad joined the firm in 1987 as a project engineer and spent a decade in pure technical work before moving into marketing — a path that made him one of AEC's most recognized "seller-doers." He walks us through the firm's boldest move yet: dropping "engineering" from its name entirely and rebranding as Wallace Design Collective for its 40th anniversary, and why he believes human relationships will matter more, not less, as AI takes over the busywork.

    In this episode

    • Why being a "seller-doer" and an engineer who can also sell, became Brad's career advantage
    • The story behind dropping "engineering" from the firm's name to become Wallace Design Collective
    • How "dedicated to the art of engineering" quietly became "dedicated to the art of possibility"
    • Wallace's retention playbook: the Glee Club, a paid volunteer day, and twice-yearly "echo meetings"
    • Why AI will make relationships more valuable in professional services, not less
    • What technical teams and marketing teams get wrong about each other and how to fix it

    Key Takeaways

    • Clients want to know who they're actually hiring before they sign on.

    • Being upfront about who you are, even knowing it won't be everyone's cup of tea, builds more trust than a polished, generic pitch.

    • Some of Brad's closest professional relationships are with his direct competitors. SMPS taught him that peer networks, even across rival firms, are a real business asset, not just networking small talk.

    • Marketing and technical work are a symbiotic relationship. Treat them as separate silos and you lose both talent and business.

    • Brad's book pick, Team of Rivals, reflects a leadership belief he still lives by: build a team with people willing to tell you no.

    Resource and References

    • Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln by Doris Kearns Goodwin: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2199.Team_of_Rivals

    Learn more about Wallace Design Collective: https://wallace.design
    Learn more about The Intangible Brand: TheIntangibleBrand.com

    About Brad Thurman

    Brad Thurman is a principal and Chief Marketing Officer of Wallace Design Collective, a professional consulting firm offering structural and civil engineering, landscape architecture, surveying and assessments. He joined Wallace in 1987 and is a licensed Professional Engineer. Since 1998, Brad has helped lead Wallace’s marketing and business development efforts across four disciplines and eight offices. He is a past president of the Oklahoma Chapter of the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS), served as the 2013-14 President on the SMPS National Board, and served as a trustee and as president of the SMPS Foundation Board of Trustees. Brad is a Certified Professional Services Marketer, was named a Fellow of SMPS in 2009, was elected to the National Academy of Construction in 2018, and was the 2025 recipient of SMPS's Weld Coxe Marketing Achievement Award.

    #WallaceDesignCollective #AECMarketing #aecindustry #EmployeeExperience #ClientExperience #SMPS #BrandStrategy

    Connect With Us

    Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

    Learn More about TOKY & Cline

    Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com
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    42 分
  • Ep 28 Marketing Is Not A Vending Machine | Corey Morris

    Ep 28 Marketing Is Not A Vending Machine | Corey Morris
    2026/08/12
    Watch this episode on YouTubeCorey Morris believes marketing isn't a vending machine you shake for quick returns. It's an investment you review and grow on purpose, every single quarter.In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead sit down with Corey Morris, owner and CEO of Voltage and creator of the START planning process, to explore why so many marketing reports look great and still leave a business no better off. After more than twenty years in SEO and digital marketing, Corey discovered that the real driver of long-term growth isn't rankings or traffic, it's proof that marketing connects to revenue, and he's built his agency's entire framework around making sure that connection never gets lost.The conversation moves from a very early career gut punch (a report full of great rankings for a client who hadn't landed a single new case) into the discipline Corey built in response: a five-step framework where the R stands for review, not reporting, because reviewing looks forward and reporting just looks back. Corey and the hosts also dig into how AI-driven search is quietly rewarding quality over quantity, and why chasing a spot on a competitor's self-serving "best of" listicle can backfire when the AI engine cites the list but drops your name from it entirely.Whether you're leading a marketing team, running an agency, or just trying to prove your own department's worth before the next budget meeting, this episode offers practical insights into making marketing measurable without losing the strategy behind it.In This EpisodeWhy "good metrics" don't mean anything until they connect straight to revenueThe difference between reporting and review, and why one is a leadership habit and the other a passive exerciseWhy AI-driven search is rewarding quality over quantity, and quietly penalizing self-serving "best of" listiclesWhy Voltage walked away from full-service work to go deeper on fewer service linesHow to build a sustainable content engine off one piece of cornerstone content instead of starting from scratch every weekWhy marketing works better as an investment mindset than a vending machineCorey's path from web project manager to SEO specialist to agency owner at VoltageKey TakeawaysMarketing metrics only matter when they're tied to a review process that connects them to real revenue impact, not just a quarterly report.In an AI-saturated search landscape, genuine expertise and a clear point of view differentiate a brand more than sheer volume of content.Specializing in fewer service lines, done at a top-tier level, builds more client trust than trying to be a one-stop shop.One well-built piece of cornerstone content (a book, a keynote, original research) can be responsibly scaled into months of authentic thought leadership.Marketing works best when it's treated like a long-term investment reviewed on a schedule, not a vending machine pulled whenever leads are needed.Resources & ReferencesThe Digital Marketing Success Plan by Corey MorrisSell with Authority by Drew McLellan and Stephen WoessnerRethinking Work by Rishad TobaccowalaAbout Corey MorrisCorey Morris is a best-selling author, speaker, and marketing leader. He is the creator of the START Planning Process and the founder of Digital Marketing Success Plan®. He is the owner and President/CEO of VOLTAGE, a specialist digital agency focused on digital strategy, search/AI marketing, and websites. With more than 20 years of experience, Corey has led award-winning initiatives for brands at local, national, and global levels, helping leadership teams align marketing execution with measurable business outcomes. His work focuses on helping leadership teams bring clarity, accountability, and adaptability to marketing decisions in an era of rapid change. Corey is a monthly expert contributor to Search Engine Journal and Search Engine Land. He speaks throughout North America on SEO, AI, and marketing strategy and accountability and has presented at events including SMX and Digital Summit. His industry leadership and community impact earned him the KCDMA’s 2019 Marketer of the Year award.Connect with Corey Morris!CoreyMorris.comCorey Morris on LinkedInConnect With UsFollow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl WinsteadLearn More about TOKY & ClineGet In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com
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    57 分
  • Ep 27 People Before Profit | Jamie Shibley

    Ep 27 People Before Profit | Jamie Shibley
    2026/07/22

    Watch this episode on YouTube!

    Jamie Shibley believes the strongest businesses aren't built on transactions, they're built on relationships that are cared for on purpose, every single time.

    In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead sit down with Jamie Shibley, CEO of The Expressory and best-selling author of Relationship-First Strategic Engagement, to explore how genuine human connection can become a repeatable business strategy. After twenty years in IT and e-commerce, Jamie discovered that the real driver of long-term growth isn't logistics or marketing spend, it's emotional equity, and she's built her agency around helping companies build it deliberately.

    The conversation moves from client gifting and referral nurturing into the more surprising territory of internal culture, making the case that how leaders acknowledge their own teams is the clearest predictor of how those teams will treat clients. Jamie and Jerry also dig into why AI and digital fatigue are pushing people back toward old-school, in-person connection rather than replacing it, and why the smallest, most human gestures; a handwritten note, a phone call, a "thank you" on the way out the door. are becoming the biggest competitive advantage available to any brand.

    Whether you're leading a team, nurturing client relationships, or building a brand from the inside out, this episode offers practical insights into turning care into a system without losing what makes it feel genuine.

    In This Episode

    • Why "systematizing care" doesn't strip away authenticity. it scales it
    • How to build a touch-point strategy for clients, prospects, and referral partners
    • The connection between employee experience and client experience
    • Why quiet, uneventful stretches in a relationship are often the biggest warning sign
    • How AI and digital fatigue are driving a return to in-person, human connection
    • What leaders often get wrong about brand, and why it's more about consistency than logos
    • Jamie's path from twenty years in corporate e-commerce to founding The Expressory

    Key Takeaways

    • Genuine connection can be systematized without becoming impersonal — the system just has to be built on real research and intention.
    • The best predictor of how a team treats clients is how its leaders treat the team.
    • In a world saturated with AI-generated content, small, unmistakably human gestures are becoming a brand's sharpest differentiator.
    • Relationships erode quietly, in the space between projects and regular, low-effort touch points are what keep them alive.
    • The strongest brands are built on consistent private acts of care, not just public messaging.

    Resources & References

    • Relationship-First Strategic Engagement by Jamie Shibley
    • Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara

    About Jamie Shibley

    Jamie Shibley is the CEO of The Expressory, a strategic engagement agency that believes the key to accelerating business growth and profitability in the post-COVID era lies in your ability to create emotional equity through nurturing meaningful relationships.
    A former IT and eCommerce leader with 20 years of corporate experience, Jamie went on to launch her own successful online brand where she discovered the true power of thoughtful, strategic gifting. Now, she's on a mission to help businesses reconnect on a human level and positively impact mental wellbeing by showing care and acknowledgement in meaningful ways.
    Jamie is the best-selling author of Relationship-First Strategic Engagement and is widely respected as a market leader. Her work has been featured on Entertainment Tonight and Forbes.com.

    Connect with Jamie Shibley

    • The Expressory
    • Jamie Shibley on LinkedIn

    Connect With Us

    Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

    Learn More about TOKY & Cline

    Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com
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    50 分
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