Is AI truly delivering ROI, or are we just “burning tokens”? In this episode of The Effortless Podcast, Amit Prakash and Dheeraj Pandey unpack the MIT report that sparked debate on AI’s real impact and revisit the timeless dilemma of whether to build or buy.

They frame the conversation through a pyramid of adoption—from global enterprises with engineering armies, to mid-market firms that buy and configure, to SMBs seeking plug-and-play simplicity. Along the way, they explore the economics of “Supernovas” vs. “Shooting Stars” in AI startups, the integration struggles holding back the mid-market, and the consulting-heavy pitfalls of enterprise “project thinking.”

This candid discussion reflects on lessons from the dot-com era, the stubbornness of leaders like Jeff Bezos and Reed Hastings, and why iteration—not initial insight—defines whether AI experiments evolve into durable products.

Key Topics & Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction: Framing “Agent Season” and the MIT report

02:00 – The ROI Question: Burning tokens or building value?

03:00 – Why Iteration Matters More in AI Than Traditional Software

04:30 – The Pyramid of Adoption: Enterprises, Mid-Market, SMBs

08:00 – SMBs, Plug-and-Play AI, and Startup Archetypes

12:00 – Supernovas vs. Shooting Stars: Startup Economics

15:00 – Dot-Com Parallels and the Role of Cheap Capital

18:00 – Disillusionment and the Stubbornness of Leadership

21:00 – Infrastructure and Iteration Speed: Microsoft vs. Google

30:00 – Mid-Market Struggles: Integration and Context Problems

36:00 – A Warehouse for Work: RAG, Indexing, and Workflows

41:00 – The Consulting Trap in Enterprises

46:00 – Projects vs. Products: The Cultural Divide

51:00 – Internal Apps, Workflows, and the “Build” Mentality

53:00 – Adoption, Habits, and the Design Challenge

55:00 – Design Partnerships as Lifelines

57:00 – Final Reflections on the MIT Report & AI’s Future

Hosts:

• Dheeraj Pandey – Co-founder and CEO at DevRev, former Co-founder & CEO of Nutanix. A tech visionary with deep interest in AI, systems, and the future of work.
• Amit Prakash – Co-founder and CTO at ThoughtSpot, former engineer at Google AdSense and Microsoft Bing, with extensive expertise in distributed systems and machine learning.

Follow the Hosts:

• Dheeraj Pandey:
  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpandey/
  Twitter/X – https://x.com/dheeraj
• Amit Prakash:
  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/amit-prakash-50719a2/
  Twitter/X – https://x.com/amitp42

Share Your Thoughts:
Have questions, comments, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at EffortlessPodcastHQ@gmail.com

Don’t forget to Like, Comment, and Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of AI, technology, and innovation.

How do you build a successful AI company in today's landscape? Do you go broad and build a horizontal platform for everyone, or do you go deep and create a vertical solution for a niche market?

In this episode, Dheeraj Pandey and Amit Prakash dive into one of the most critical strategic challenges facing founders today. They explore the paradox of needing broad context for AI to be intelligent, while also requiring sharp focus to find a buyer.

The discussion covers everything from distribution models (Product-Led Growth vs. Sales-Led Growth), the role of founder bias, the rise of the citizen developer, and why the most successful AI companies of the future, like the most effective leaders, will need to be "T-shaped."

Key Topics & Chapter Markers
[00:01:28] Welcome & Summer Recap
[00:08:04] Introducing the Core Theme: Breadth vs. Depth in AI
[00:10:28] The Technologist's Dilemma: Building a Horizontal Platform vs. a Vertical Solution
[00:12:05] The Paradox of AI: Needing Broad Context for Narrow Problems
[00:15:00] The Persona Problem: Building for a Builder vs. an End-User
[00:27:21] Go-to-Market Models: PLG vs. Forward-Deployed Engineering (SLG)
[00:32:40] Founder Bias: How Personal Ambition, Laziness, and Experience Shape Strategy
[00:42:55] The Hourglass Model: Let Chaos Reign, Then Reign in the Chaos
[00:49:19] Why Every SLG Company Must Have a PLG Motion to Prevent Churn
[00:50:21] The "T-Shaped" Metaphor for People and AI Products
[00:51:30] Context and Memory: Prompt Engineering vs. Fine-Tuning Models
[01:01:20] Finding Your Serviceable Addressable Market (SAM) vs. Total Addressable Market (TAM)
[01:04:40] The Power of "Unreasonable Hospitality" in Customer Focus
[01:06:00] Teaser for the Next Episode: A Deeper Dive into MCP vs. A2A Protocols

Hosts:
Dheeraj Pandey: Co-founder and CEO at DevRev, formerly Co-founder and CEO of Nutanix. A tech visionary with a deep interest in AI and systems thinking.

Amit Prakash: Co-founder and CTO at ThoughtSpot, formerly at Google AdSense and Bing, with extensive expertise in analytics and large-scale systems.

Follow the Hosts:
Dheeraj Pandey:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpandey
Twitter - https://x.com/dheeraj

Amit Prakash:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/amit-prakash-50719a2/
Twitter - https://x.com/amitp42

Share Your Thoughts:
Have questions, comments, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at EffortlessPodcastHQ@gmail.com

Don’t forget to Like, Comment, and Subscribe for more in-depth discussions on AI, technology, and innovation!

In this episode of The Effortless Podcast, hosts Dheeraj Pandey and Amit Prakash sit down with Harpinder "Happy" Singh, AI/ML Engineer at DevRev, to explore the future of AI and machine learning in business automation. Happy, who joined DevRev in 2021, shares his journey from computer science to AI, discussing how DevRev is leveraging cutting-edge technologies like large language models (LLMs) and function calling to streamline enterprise workflows.

Happy breaks down the key concepts of AI-driven workflows, the debate between federated and integrated systems, and the growing importance of Python in AI. He also shares insights from the CodeAct paper, which proposes using Python code execution for more efficient and flexible LLMs. The conversation highlights the transformative potential of AI in enterprise automation and how it is reshaping industries.

They also cover:

• The evolution of AI at DevRev: From workflows to AI-driven automation
• The role of Python in executing complex tasks for LLMs
• Understanding the user-agent-environment model in AI systems
• How federated vs. integrated systems impact AI performance
• The future of AI in enterprise automation and DevRev’s innovations
• Happy’s decision to stay in India and the growing tech ecosystem in India

This episode provides valuable insights into how AI is transforming business operations, making complex workflows more efficient and accessible. Whether you're an AI enthusiast, a developer, or a business leader, this conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the next wave of AI-driven innovation.

Key Topics & Timestamps:

00:00 – Introduction to Harpinder "Happy" Singh & His Journey into AI

03:00 – Happy’s Early Background: From Shahjahanpur to BITS Pilani

06:30 – Transition to AI at DevRev

09:30 – Bangalore Life and Growing with DevRev

13:00 – AI in India vs. the US

18:00 – Federated vs. Integrated Systems: Which Approach Works Best for AI?

25:00 – The Role of Python in AI

32:00 – User, Agent, and Environment Model in AI

39:30 – The CodeAct Paper: Replacing Tool Calls with Python Code Execution

47:00 – AI in Enterprise Automation: How DevRev Uses AI to Streamline Workflows

54:00 – Looking Ahead at DevRev’s AI Innovations

1:00:00 – Final Reflections: The Future of AI in Business and Automation

Hosts:
Dheeraj Pandey: Co-founder and CEO at DevRev, formerly CEO of Nutanix, a tech visionary passionate about AI and systems thinking.
Amit Prakash: Co-founder and CTO at ThoughtSpot, former engineer at Google and Microsoft, and expert in distributed systems and machine learning.

Guest:
Harpinder Jot Singh: AI/ML Engineer at DevRev, working on the cutting edge of large language models (LLMs), AI-driven workflows, and integrating AI into enterprise systems.

Follow the Host and the Guest:

Dheeraj Pandey: LinkedIn | X

Amit Prakash: LinkedIn | X

Harpinder Singh: LinkedIn

Have questions or thoughts on AI? Drop us a mail at effortlesspodcasthq@gmail.com

Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more insights into the future of AI, business automation, and enterprise technology!

Episode 13 | The Effortless Podcast

In this episode of The Effortless Podcast, hosts Dheeraj Pandey and Amit Prakash sit down with Dr. Sonika Johri, Founder and CEO of Coherent Computing, to dive deep into the revolutionary world of quantum computing. Dr. Johri, a physicist with a PhD in condensed matter physics from Princeton University, takes us on her journey from engineering physics at IIT Delhi to becoming a leading figure in the quantum industry, having worked at Intel and IonQ.

Sonika explains the core concepts of quantum computing—superposition, entanglement, and the quantum state space—and how they fundamentally change how we approach complex problems in fields like chemistry, material science, and AI. She discusses the future potential of quantum technologies, including the exciting prospects for Quantum AI and the shift in programming paradigms as we move from low-level machine code to higher-level abstractions.

They also cover:

• The evolution of quantum hardware: From small qubits to scaling quantum systems
• What makes quantum computing different from classical computing
• The intersection of quantum computing and artificial intelligence
• Sonika’s mission to democratize quantum through Coherent Computing
• The current state of quantum software and the tools that will shape the future

This episode offers insights into quantum computing, AI, and how these emerging technologies will reshape the future of computing. Whether you’re a tech enthusiast, developer, or entrepreneur, this conversation is a must-listen for anyone curious about the next frontier in technology.

Key Topics & Timestamps:
[00:00] – Introduction to Dr. Sonika Johri & Her Journey into Quantum Tech

[03:00] – Sonika’s early influences: Einstein and IIT Delhi

[06:30] – Understanding Condensed Matter Physics

[12:00] – Quantum Computing vs Classical Computing

[20:00] – How Quantum Can Solve Complex Problems (Chemistry, Optimization, AI)

[28:00] – Quantum Hardware: The Role of Qubits and Their Physical Realization

[35:00] – Programming Quantum Computers: From Low-Level Gates to High-Level Abstractions

[43:00] – Building Quantum Applications: Real-World Use Cases from IonQ and Coherent Computing

[52:00] – The Future of Quantum AI: Machine Learning and Quantum Reasoning

[1:00:00] – Quantum's Impact on Cryptography and Data Security

[1:05:00] – The Mission of Coherent Computing: Making Quantum Accessible

[1:12:00] – Looking Ahead: Future Episodes on Quantum Computing and AI

[1:20:00] – Wrap-Up and Final Thoughts

Hosts:
Dheeraj Pandey: Co-founder and CEO at DevRev, formerly CEO of Nutanix, a tech visionary passionate about AI and systems thinking.
Amit Prakash: Co-founder and CTO at ThoughtSpot, former engineer at Google and Microsoft, and expert in distributed systems and machine learning.

Guest:
Dr. Sonika Johri: Founder and CEO of Coherent Computing, a quantum software startup aiming to make quantum models accessible through developer-friendly tools. Formerly at Intel and IonQ, Sonika brings her experience in building quantum software and applications for industries like finance, chemistry, and optimization.

Follow the Host and the Guest:

Dheeraj Pandey: LinkedIn | X

Amit Prakash: LinkedIn | X

Dr. Sonika Johri: LinkedIn | X

Have questions or thoughts on quantum computing? Drop us a mail at EffortlessPodcastHQ@gmail.com

Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more deep dives into the future of technology, AI, and quantum computing!

In this episode of The Effortless Podcast, host Dheeraj Pandey sits down with Bipul Sinha, co-founder and CEO of Rubrik, to explore the power of relentless innovation, first-principles thinking, and continuous reinvention.

Bipul shares his journey from Oracle to venture capital, his transition from investor to entrepreneur, and the bold thinking behind Rubrik’s evolution from backup and recovery to cybersecurity and AI-driven data protection. He and Dheeraj reflect on lessons from Larry Ellison, the shifting tech landscape, and the importance of being non-consensus in building transformative businesses.

They also discuss:
🔹 The power of controversial ideas and why misunderstanding is a sign of innovation
🔹 How converging backup and security is reshaping enterprise cyber resilience
🔹 Why businesses must think backwards to execute forwards
🔹 The role of AI in simplifying cybersecurity and data management
🔹 Insights on US Federal, global markets, and the changing economic landscape

This episode is packed with wisdom on leadership, risk-taking, and the mindset needed to challenge the status quo. If you're a founder, investor, or technologist, this conversation will redefine how you think about disruption and reinvention.

• [00:00] – Are you creating the future or burdened by the past?
• [02:00] – Oracle memories: The Larry Ellison mindset & first-principles thinking
• [09:00] – The leap from venture capital to entrepreneurship
• [16:00] – Why big ideas must be controversial to create true value
• [24:00] – The evolution of Rubrik: From backup to cybersecurity to AI
• [31:00] – The power of change & why businesses must continuously reinvent
• [40:00] – AI & cybersecurity: Why protecting data is the new frontier
• [50:00] – Lessons from global markets, US Federal, and economic shifts
• [58:00] – Adhogami vs. Urdhogami: The danger of relying on the past

Host:

Dheeraj Pandey: Co-founder and CEO at DevRev, formerly Co-founder and CEO of Nutanix. A tech visionary with a deep interest in AI and systems thinking.

Guest:

Biplu Sinha: Co-founder and CEO of Rubrik, and former venture capitalist at Lightspeed and Blumberg. Bipul is an entrepreneur and investor with deep expertise in enterprise software, cybersecurity, and data management. Passionate about building enduring institutions and pioneering first-principles innovation.

Follow the Host and the Guest:

Dheeraj Pandey:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpandey

Twitter - https://x.com/dheeraj

Bipul Sinha:

LinkedIn -https://linkedin.com/in/bipulsinha

Twitter - https://x.com/bipulrsinha

Share Your Thoughts:

Have questions, comments, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at EffortlessPodcastHQ@gmail.com

Don’t forget to Like, Comment, and Subscribe for more in-depth discussions on AI, technology, and innovation!

In this episode, Amit and Dheeraj dive deep into the world of AI reasoning models with Alex, an AI researcher involved in OpenThinker and OpenThoughts. They explore two recent groundbreaking papers—SkyT1 and S1 (Simple Test Time Scaling)—that showcase new insights into how large language models (LLMs) develop reasoning capabilities.

From structured reasoning vs. content accuracy to fine-tuning efficiency and the role of active learning, this conversation highlights the shift from prompt engineering to structured supervised fine-tuning (SFT) and post-training techniques. The discussion also touches on open weights, open data, and open-source AI, revealing the evolving AI landscape and its impact on startups, research, and beyond.

• [00:00] Introduction – Why reasoning models matter & today's agenda
• [05:15] Breaking Down SkyT1 – Structure vs. Content in reasoning
• [15:45] Open weights, open data, and open-source AI
• [22:30] Fine-tuning vs. RL – When do you need reinforcement learning?
• [30:10] S1 and the power of test-time scaling
• [40:25] Budget forcing – Making AI "think" more efficiently
• [50:50] RAG vs. SFT – What should startups use?
• [01:05:30] Active learning – AI asking the right questions
• [01:15:00] Final thoughts – Where AI reasoning is heading next

📄 Papers Discussed:

• SkyT1: "LLMs Can Easily Learn to Reason from Demonstrations"
• S1: "Simple Test-Time Scaling"

Hosts:

Dheeraj Pandey: Co-founder and CEO at DevRev, formerly Co-founder and CEO of Nutanix. A tech visionary with a deep interest in AI and systems thinking.

Amit Prakash: Co-founder and CTO at ThoughtSpot, formerly at Google AdSense and Bing, with extensive expertise in analytics and large-scale systems.

Guest:

Alex Dimakis: Professor at UC Berkeley and co-founder of Bespoke Labs, Alex has made significant contributions to deep learning, machine learning infrastructure, and the development of AI reasoning frameworks.

Follow the Hosts and the Guest:

Dheeraj Pandey:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpandey

Twitter - https://x.com/dheeraj

Amit Prakash:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/amit-prakash-50719a2/

Twitter - https://x.com/amitp42

Alex Dimakis:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-dimakis-b1b20320

Twitter - https://x.com/AlexGDimakis

Share Your Thoughts:

Have questions, comments, or ideas for future episodes? Email us at EffortlessPodcastHQ@gmail.com

Don’t forget to Like, Comment, and Subscribe for more in-depth discussions on AI, technology, and innovation!