In this episode of the Backstage Pastors podcast, Phil Taylor sits down with Matt Steen, co-founder of Chemistry Staffing, to talk about church staffing, pastoral succession, and the evolving role of the executive pastor. Matt shares his unconventional journey into ministry and explains why Chemistry Staffing was created to help churches find healthier, longer-lasting ministry fits. They also discuss the shrinking pipeline of ministry leaders, why some churches may not actually need an executive pastor, and what aspiring XPs should consider when looking for the right role.

Matt highlights concerning trends in staff retention and encourages church leaders to have intentional conversations about their team members’ health, calling, and future. They close with practical ways churches can develop and send leaders while creating healthier teams and more sustainable ministry.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Connect with Matt Steen

• 💻 Chemistry Staffing

• 📩 Contact Matt Steen

• 📕Turn the Ship Around! by L. David Marquet

Upcoming Events

• Harbor Network Conference — Fort Myers, Florida

• The Church Hub Executive Pastor Cohort

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

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CHAPTERS

03:59 — Matt Steen’s Unconventional Journey into Ministry

07:29 — Why Chemistry Staffing Was Started

10:13 — Succession and the Shrinking Ministry Pipeline

14:09 — Does Your Church Really Need an Executive Pastor?

16:48 — Advice for Aspiring Executive Pastors

22:15 — Surviving Your First Year as an XP

26:24 — What the Church Staff Health Assessment Is Revealing

30:04 — The Three-to-Five-Year Wall and Developing Staff

38:43 — How Chemistry Staffing Approaches Church Hiring

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Executive pastors and second-chair leaders are often responsible for turning a senior leader’s vision into action—but what happens when there are more ideas than the organization can realistically execute?

Holly Tate of The Ready Network joins Phil and Tyler to discuss sustainable growth, second-chair leadership, and becoming “yes-obsessed.” Holly introduces the Yes Test, a five-question framework that helps church leaders evaluate new opportunities, protect organizational focus, and determine what deserves a yes—and what needs a no.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow Holly Tate

• 💻 More From Holly

• 💻The Ready Network

• 📩 Contact Holly - holly@thereadynetwork.com

Upcoming Events

• Harbor Network Conference — Fort Myers, Florida -

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

03:01 — Holly Tate’s Leadership Journey

09:18 — Helping Leaders and Teams Prepare for Growth

12:59 — What It Means to Be Yes-Obsessed

16:21 — The Yes Test for Second-Chair Leaders

20:24 — Five Questions for Evaluating New Opportunities

28:01 — Leading Up and Earning a Seat at the Table

34:00 — Building Healthier Church Boards

36:23 — Using AI to Help Executives Stay Focused

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Zach Cochran, Vice President of Operations at The Gospel Coalition, joins Phil and Tyler to discuss his transition from executive pastor to nonprofit second-chair leadership, the importance of operational leaders in the church, and TGC’s work helping Christians navigate artificial intelligence. He also shares practical wisdom for XPs considering a ministry transition and explains why healthy church leadership often requires patience with the slow, relational nature of ministry.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow The Gospel Coalition

• 💻 The Gospel Coalition Articles

• 💻 TGC AI Policy

• 🎙️Silicon Spiritualities — TGC podcast exploring AI, its formative effects, and questions about wise Christian engagement with artificial intelligence.

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

02:00 Zach’s Journey from College Athletics to Ministry Operations

05:12 Sojourn, Multi-site Ministry, and the Executive Pastor Role

06:52 Moving from Executive Pastor to TGC

12:15 Inside The Gospel Coalition’s Ministry and Resources

15:00 AI, Theology, and the Church

21:28 What XPs Should Know Before Changing Roles

27:00 Unifying the Church and Equipping Pastors

30:12 Resources for Executive Pastors and Second-Chair Leaders

32:24 AI, “Slop Scanning,” and Closing Thoughts

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark