Bert Neuborne entered Cornell at 16 expecting to become a doctor. Organic chemistry helped change those plans. A few years later, after Harvard Law School and three years on Wall Street, he took a one-year leave to work at the Civil Liberties Union.

On his second day, Muhammad Ali walked through the door looking for legal help in his fight against the draft.

Neuborne knew he had found his work.

In Part 1 of his conversation with Neal Goldstein, Neuborne looks back at practicing civil liberties law during the extraordinary legal and cultural changes of the 1960s and 1970s. He discusses knowing civil rights worker Michael Schwerner, working alongside figures including Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and the period when constitutional lawyers could sometimes watch arguments that began around a lunch table become real changes in the law.

He also tells the remarkable story of representing B-52 pilots and bombardiers who refused to continue bombing Cambodia without understanding why they were being ordered to do it. The case ultimately sent Neuborne across the country in search of Justice William O. Douglas and produced a temporary injunction stopping the bombing.

Neuborne also explains the constitutional philosophy behind Madison's Music and why he believes the First Amendment makes more sense when its protections are read as parts of one coherent democratic story.

It is a conversation about risk, constitutional power, finding meaningful work, and what one lawyer learned from spending decades testing the boundaries of American civil liberties.

Follow or subscribe to That One Lawyer Podcast for Part 2 of Neal Goldstein's conversation with Bert Neuborne.

Eli Honig never planned on becoming a television legal analyst.

Before CNN, he spent 14 years as a federal and state prosecutor. In this episode, Eli joins Neal Goldstein to talk about the unexpected career pivot that took him from the courtroom to television, the relationships that made that transition possible, and why the skills of a trial lawyer translate so naturally to explaining complicated legal cases to the public.

They also get into a harder issue: what happens when political preference starts influencing legal analysis. Eli explains why he believes a lawyer's job is to call the law as he sees it, even when that conclusion puts him at odds with people who otherwise share the same professional world.

The conversation becomes deeply personal as Eli discusses being the grandson of two Holocaust survivors and how his family's history shaped his understanding of justice, accountability, and preserving the stories of those who came before him.

Eli also reflects on the prosecution of Adolf Eichmann, the importance his prosecutors placed on due process even for an infamous defendant, his path from New Jersey public schools to Harvard Law School, the mentors and relationships that changed his career, and what he wishes he understood earlier about setbacks and nonlinear professional paths.

Follow or subscribe to That One Lawyer Podcast for more conversations about the people, relationships, choices, and experiences behind a life in the law.

revor Sterling left school at 17 believing school simply wasn't for him. A career advisor gave him three options: warehouseman, tennis racket stringer, or postal clerk at a law firm.

He chose the law firm.

That decision changed everything.

Trevor went from delivering legal papers to becoming a solicitor, senior partner at Moore Barlow, and the first Black senior partner appointed at a UK top 100 law firm.

But his story is not simply about climbing the legal profession's ladder.

Trevor joins Neal Goldstein to talk about growing up in Britain as the son of Jamaican parents from the Windrush generation, confronting racism and questions of belonging, and finding confidence in a profession he never imagined entering.

He remembers the lawyers who saw potential in him before he fully saw it himself, including one whose letters he would photocopy and take home so he could practice speaking like him in front of a mirror.

That experience shaped the way Trevor now thinks about mentorship, opportunity, and what lawyers owe the people coming behind them.

Trevor also takes Neal inside nearly four decades of representing people after catastrophic injuries and major tragedies. They discuss what that work does to a lawyer, why adversity changed the way Trevor connects with clients, and the question that still guides his practice: Are you a lawyer first or a businessperson first?

The conversation also turns to the barriers that remain inside the legal profession. Trevor discusses class, race, education, networks, and why becoming the first Black senior partner at a UK top 100 law firm was both an achievement and evidence of how much further the profession still has to go.

That brings Trevor to the idea at the center of this episode:

"don't just aspire to climb the ladder, be the ladder."

Through the Be The Ladder Foundation, Trevor is now creating opportunities for young people who might otherwise struggle to see what is possible for them.

Neal and Trevor also talk about authenticity, family, the Windrush scandal, and why Trevor chose to record his 89-year-old parents telling the stories of their lives in Jamaica while he still had the opportunity to ask.

For any lawyer who has ever questioned where they belong, who helped them get there, or what they should do with their success once they arrive, this is a conversation worth hearing.

Subscribe to That One Lawyer Podcast for more conversations about the people, choices, relationships, and experiences behind a life in the law

CONNECT WITH NEAL / THAT ONE LAWYER™ • Watch The Conversation: https://youtu.be/enI66YnNxs0 •

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/nealagoldsteinlaw/

• Instagram: @nealagoldsteinlaw •

Books:https://a.co/d/04x05SeK AND https://a.co/d/02TMpPNZ

CONNECT WITH TREVOR STERLING •

Trevor's LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-trevor-d-sterling-hon-causa-33841320/ •

Firm's bio/profile: moorebarlow.com •

Be The Ladder: www.BeTheLadderAwards.com