Welcome to the final podcast of series 1 of Taking Action. I will now be 'taking stock" and "taking a break" instead. the podcast will definitely be back, maybe with a renewed focus, format and frequency. Please look out for a return in mid-February. In the meantime, please check out previous episodes on Buzzsprout, Apple and Spotify.

I had no doubt about how I wanted to finish off this first season and that was with a look back at this year, both through the podcast and the wider set of actions to mark the 20 year anniversary of Scotland's ACEs Journey. I also wanted this too be a forward looking episode and I think we have achieved both goals.

This is a relaxed and wide ranging conversation which rounds off the series as I would want it to. It is filled with hope.

If you wan t know more about what has been happening in Scotland over the last 20 years, here are some useful links

For the graphic film telling the story of Scotland’s ACES Journey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hik0_sfbF6I

For the booklet telling the story of Scotland’s ACEs Journey:

https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ACEs-Journey-book-screen-190625.pdf

For an even deeper dive into Scotland’s ACEs Journey:

https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ACEs-Journey-info-June-25-2025.pdf

For the 2023 paper by Zeedyk & Partridge tracing the ACEs history: https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/ACEs-Journey-Article-.pdf

For a video of the Gala Day held in June 2025:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbP5ZbyMCBE

We will also be releasing a graphic image showing the range of people involved in the podcast. It is a powerful illustration of the diversity of sectors, organisations and individuals who are working to make Scotland a more just, compassionate and equitable country .

Look out for that on Linkedin, Bluesky and X

This is an episode which I have been longing to record. John Carnochan and Karyn McCluskey are, for me, towering figures in Scotland's ACEs movement. They were founding members of the groundbreaking Violence Reduction Unit established within the Strathclyde Police Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Reduction_Unit). They would both give credit to others for the building of that unit and they do that on the podcast, but they were instrumental in its success. Both are charismatic, clear-sighted, pragmatic and principled. They helped to change the culture of policing in, what was then, Strathclyde Region and influenced change far beyond that.

They tackled what was then an appalling climate of violence in Scotland and had the courage to turn their backs on the standard remedy of more police, harsher punishments and a massive increase in the prison population. They recognised that "prevention" and "deterrence" were not synonyms and were prepared to tackle the causes of crime.

They saw the importance of improving public services, memorably calling for more health visitors rather than more police officers. They listened to victims and to perpetrators and drew widely on data and research and they had an impact.

They are both wonderful communicators with the ability to generate stunning phrases and aphorisms at the drop of a proverbial hat. They understood, and understand, the power of stories and used that relentlessly to engage, motivate and inspire others.

Above all they brought, and bring, an intense humanity to all that they do. They are as far from the caricature of "bleeding-heart liberals" or "woke warriors" as it possible to be, but they are unafraid to argue with John Major's assertion that we need to"condemn a little more and understand a little less". They are clear that, regardless of how we deal with crime and criminals, we will change little without understanding, curiosity and a willingness to learn.

Remarkably, they not only manage to illustrate all of these points in this episode, they also help us to reflect on the ACEs movement more generally and the lessons that we need to learn.

It is an episode worth learning from

For anyone interested in finding out more about the VRU, here are a number of links

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/25/scottish-violence-reduction-unit-radical-change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhFDsONaA5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjvqUWl4lkA

This episode really moves us into the final phase of this series of "Taking Action" - (look out for an announcement about future plans soon). We are going to be "looking in" with Warren Larkin to see how Scotland looks from an external perspective. We are then going to look back with John Carnochan and Karyn McCluskey, before we look forward with the return of Suzanne Zeedyk

Warren Larkin is remarkable. As I describe him in the programme, he is a Renaissance Man of the ACEs movement. You will get details on him from his website

https://warrenlarkinassociates.co.uk/ and it is impressive

His own education story is fascinating = https://warrenlarkinassociates.co.uk/2018/01/08/about-warren-larkin/

During Covid, Warren headed up a Resilience Task Force to try to mitigate long-term impacts. Here is a link to one of those videos in 2020:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzYr39Cwobg

He is particularly well known for his work promoting Routine Enquiry about Adversity in Childhood - the REACh model. He talks about this in his podcast.
https://warrenlarkinassociates.co.uk/portfolio-items/routine-enquiry-about-adversity-in-childhood-reach-programme/


Here is the work he is doing to build trauma-sensitive schools now:
https://warrenlarkinassociates.co.uk/portfolio-items/trauma-sensitive-schools/


He is a lead partner in a project working in schools to help them develop an understanding of trauma informed practice. Again, he talks about this in his podcast.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/home-office-and-yef-fund-5-8m-trauma-informed-practice-research/

That pedigree and his wide experience make him a perfect guest to offer an external perspective on the ACEs movement in Scotland. He delivers that with passion, humour, insight and depth. I know I always say this, but I always mean it, this episode is worth your time!

I know that people can listen to this podcast anytime, but it is being posted as the Christmas edition for 2025 and it is, appropriately, a cracker!!

Suzanne Zeedyk has been mentioned in a number of the earlier episodes and has, clearly, been hugely influential in the efforts to make sure that the Scottish public is a familiar as possible with the science of ACEs. The idea for this "Taking Action” series stemmed from Suzanne's vision for a year of celebration to mark the 20 years of Scotland's ACE's journey. Many of the guests have come from connections that shehas fostered.

For all of these reasons it seems wonderfully appropriate to mark the last of our 2025 episodes with her thoughts. It is also appropriate that this is the first of two episodes that we will record with Suzanne. We plan to take a break over Christmas and New Year and return on the 9th of January when we will feature Warren Larkin, Professor, Consultant, Speaker, Trainer, Psychologist and more, giving us reflections our achievements in Scotland from an external perspective. This will be our “looking in" episode. We will then follow that with the redoubtable Karyn McCluskey and John Carnochan (the "redoubtable" applies to both of them!!!) talking about the original establishment of the Violence Reduction Unit in 2005, which kick started the efforts being marked in this year of celebration. It will be our "looking back" episode.

After that we will conclude the series with Suzanne and I jointly "looking forward”.

In the meantime, please enjoy this episode which reviews the series so far, exploring Suzanne's background and current work, which stands alongside what she has done in the 15 years she has been working with the public.

Here are lots of links to explore if you want to contact Suzanne or find out more and follow up some of the aspects of our discussion.

• Suzanne’s website: www.suzannezeedyk.com
• connected baby website: www.connectedbaby.net
• Article written by Suzanne (2023) on the history of the ACEs Movement in Scotland:https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/ACEs-Journey-Article-.pdf
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• Graphic booklet on Scotland’s ACEs Journey, created by connected baby: https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ACEs-Journey-book-screen-190625.pdf
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• Article by Suzanne (2022) on disseminating science to the public, in which she takes about the power of stories: https://mindinmind.org.uk/thought-pieces/science-of-attachment/
• Discussion with Piers Cross and Suzanne Zeedyk (2020) on boarding school trauma: https://www.piers-cross.com/aem-podcast-36-suzanne-zeedyk-ph-d-aem-36-suzanne-zeedyk-developmental-psychologist-attachment-theory-aces-trauma-boarding-school
• Substack articles on Fierce Curiosity: https://suzannezeedyk.substack.com/
• Feedback video on Daring Ventures Programme in Fife: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9GLoV3Sz0
• What Then Must We Do by Tolstoy: https://philoonbooks.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/what-then-must-we-do-by-leo-tolstoy/

I have been keen to record another episode of this series which focussed on Further Education to follow up the wonderful episode with Jackie Galbraith from West Lothian College. Kirsten Harrold is a worthy successor.

Kirsten is a brilliant combination intellect and rigour, with a deep knowledge of the theory of child development and of attachment, and a resolute pragmatism and practicality. All of that is delivered in a completely unpretentious way laced with energy, enthusiasm and humour.

She is a great guest with a great story to tell. The training offered to early years practitioners at Edinburgh College is exemplary. They are really well-supported. Every detail of the courses and the context in which the courses are delivered is given deep thought. Kirsten is full of ideas about how to create a culture, how to maximise the potential of students and how to establish an environment for learning.

She and her colleagues have also gone well beyond what we might traditionally think of as courses and she talks about some off the events which the team have run out of the normal college timetable. This has given students access to really influential thinkers like Claudia Gold and Iain McGilchrist and others.

This is a classic example of how we can set high standards and expectations while still recognising the needs of students and the importance of positive relationships.

The latest example of this is a screening of the film Love and Trouble https://www.screen.scot/film-in-scotland/made-in-scotland/film/love-and-trouble which we discussed with film distributor Christo Hird in another episode of this series. That showing will be at Edinburgh College on the 15th of January and details of how to purchase tickets will be available from the College nearer the time.

This episode marks our quarter century. It also marks a bit of a departure in that it is a discussion with Louise Marryat and reflecting on her 2019 research into ACEs in Scotland. It is about a different sort of taking action, but we wanted to get an overview of where we were in terms of the prevalence of ACEs in Scotland. As the conversation develops it does much more than that.

It delves into the impact of poverty in Scotland and elsewhere. That underlines the need for us to take political action, as well as personal and professional action, to improve the lives of those affected by ACEs.

It enters into the discussion that we need to have about the tendency to blame those in poverty for their situation. It explores the importance of data and evidence. It offers hope by looking at the annual Growing Up in Scotland cohort study which is a major commitment on the part of Scottish Government.

Louise argues that the study does inform policy at a time when it too often appears that policy is driven by short-termism, focus groups, vested interests, over-powerful media owners and a political party which is not even in power. It seems that we need that sense of evidence driven policy and ethical commitment to counteract growing cynicism about, and disengagement from, mainstream democratic politics.

This episode is thought provoking and goes much more deeply into some of the big issues that we face in trying to make Scotland a more equal and compassionate country

This is a really important podcast for me. I realised that we had recorded 23 episodes and not included anyone from a black or minority ethnic community. That led me to reflect on how little engagement there has been between these communities and the ACEs movement in Scotland so I wanted to explore why that was the case.

I also wanted to explore the whole area of anti-racism, highlight examples of action and see where there could be more overlap with the ACEs movement.

Kwaku Adjei ań ideał person to do that with. He worked with the Council for Racial Equality and Rights - https://www.linkedin.com/company/crer-scotland/?originalSubdomain=uk. In that role he worked directly with schools advising, supporting, teaching and dealing directly with instances of racism, supporting victims and using restorative practice.

He currently works with AdRESS - Advocacy for Race Equality in Schools Scotland - https://www.adresscotland.org - building on the work that he previously did with specific schools. The focus, as the name suggests, is very much on advocacy and support.

Kwaku has certainly taken action and we talk at length about that, but we also discuss the big questions about how we bring together the ACEs movement and the anti- racist movement. We talk about communities with common challenges affected by disadvantage, stigma and trauma and how we might work together better,

We recognise that racism and othering appear to be becoming increasingly common and question whether divisions between communities are encouraged rather then resolved.

We can often be complacent in Scotland about our commitment to tolerance and equality and this podcast challenges that in, what I think, is a positive and constructive way

I am delighted to be releasing this episode of Taking Action for a number of reasons.

First, and most importantly, it features two really committed and passionate people in Gwenne and Jennie, who have an excellent project to talk about.

Secondly, it highlights work in health, which is an area that I haven't featured enough in the series.

Thirdly, it touches on a lot of themes that have been developing across this series. Their work recognises that childhood trauma may have long-lasting effects on self-regulation, mood and behaviour and can increase the likelihood of developing adult mental and physical health conditions. This growing awareness has led to mental health services becoming necessarily more trauma informed. This is reflected in a paradigm shift in nursing education, which is moving from a diagnostic model of trauma care to a psychological, trauma-informed approach. The emphasis is on what has happened to the person instead of what is wrong with the person.

The University of Stirling developed a new undergraduate nursing curriculum based on the six principles of trauma- informed care published by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. This has led to the development of the (T)AASKED model, the aim of which is to equip nursing students with the skills and knowledge to work in a trauma-informed framework and to improve the experience of mental health service users. Jennie was central to the initial development of this work and Gwenne is currently taking it forward.

• Here is a super video about this work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhMgzKjRvxs
• The Stirling Programme is featured in the ACEs Journey video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hik0_sfbF6I
• It is featured also in the booklet: https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ACEs-Journey-book-screen-190625.pdf
• AND it features in the academic paper Suzanne Zeedyk wrote on Scotland’s ACEs Movement, published in 2023. In fact, the paper ends with a quote from Brodie Paterson, whom Jennie mentions in the podcast as one of the team who developed the Stirling Programme. https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/ACEs-Journey-Article-.pdf