This episode marks our quarter century. It also marks a bit of a departure in that it is a discussion with Louise Marryat and reflecting on her 2019 research into ACEs in Scotland. It is about a different sort of taking action, but we wanted to get an overview of where we were in terms of the prevalence of ACEs in Scotland. As the conversation develops it does much more than that.

It delves into the impact of poverty in Scotland and elsewhere. That underlines the need for us to take political action, as well as personal and professional action, to improve the lives of those affected by ACEs.

It enters into the discussion that we need to have about the tendency to blame those in poverty for their situation. It explores the importance of data and evidence. It offers hope by looking at the annual Growing Up in Scotland cohort study which is a major commitment on the part of Scottish Government.

Louise argues that the study does inform policy at a time when it too often appears that policy is driven by short-termism, focus groups, vested interests, over-powerful media owners and a political party which is not even in power. It seems that we need that sense of evidence driven policy and ethical commitment to counteract growing cynicism about, and disengagement from, mainstream democratic politics.

This episode is thought provoking and goes much more deeply into some of the big issues that we face in trying to make Scotland a more equal and compassionate country

This is a really important podcast for me. I realised that we had recorded 23 episodes and not included anyone from a black or minority ethnic community. That led me to reflect on how little engagement there has been between these communities and the ACEs movement in Scotland so I wanted to explore why that was the case.

I also wanted to explore the whole area of anti-racism, highlight examples of action and see where there could be more overlap with the ACEs movement.

Kwaku Adjei ań ideał person to do that with. He worked with the Council for Racial Equality and Rights - https://www.linkedin.com/company/crer-scotland/?originalSubdomain=uk. In that role he worked directly with schools advising, supporting, teaching and dealing directly with instances of racism, supporting victims and using restorative practice.

He currently works with AdRESS - Advocacy for Race Equality in Schools Scotland - https://www.adresscotland.org - building on the work that he previously did with specific schools. The focus, as the name suggests, is very much on advocacy and support.

Kwaku has certainly taken action and we talk at length about that, but we also discuss the big questions about how we bring together the ACEs movement and the anti- racist movement. We talk about communities with common challenges affected by disadvantage, stigma and trauma and how we might work together better,

We recognise that racism and othering appear to be becoming increasingly common and question whether divisions between communities are encouraged rather then resolved.

We can often be complacent in Scotland about our commitment to tolerance and equality and this podcast challenges that in, what I think, is a positive and constructive way

I am delighted to be releasing this episode of Taking Action for a number of reasons.

First, and most importantly, it features two really committed and passionate people in Gwenne and Jennie, who have an excellent project to talk about.

Secondly, it highlights work in health, which is an area that I haven't featured enough in the series.

Thirdly, it touches on a lot of themes that have been developing across this series. Their work recognises that childhood trauma may have long-lasting effects on self-regulation, mood and behaviour and can increase the likelihood of developing adult mental and physical health conditions. This growing awareness has led to mental health services becoming necessarily more trauma informed. This is reflected in a paradigm shift in nursing education, which is moving from a diagnostic model of trauma care to a psychological, trauma-informed approach. The emphasis is on what has happened to the person instead of what is wrong with the person.

The University of Stirling developed a new undergraduate nursing curriculum based on the six principles of trauma- informed care published by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. This has led to the development of the (T)AASKED model, the aim of which is to equip nursing students with the skills and knowledge to work in a trauma-informed framework and to improve the experience of mental health service users. Jennie was central to the initial development of this work and Gwenne is currently taking it forward.

• Here is a super video about this work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhMgzKjRvxs
• The Stirling Programme is featured in the ACEs Journey video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hik0_sfbF6I
• It is featured also in the booklet: https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ACEs-Journey-book-screen-190625.pdf
• AND it features in the academic paper Suzanne Zeedyk wrote on Scotland’s ACEs Movement, published in 2023. In fact, the paper ends with a quote from Brodie Paterson, whom Jennie mentions in the podcast as one of the team who developed the Stirling Programme. https://connectedbaby.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/ACEs-Journey-Article-.pdf

Angus Bell's story is remarkable. His experience of attending a well known boarding school in Scotland is utterly horrific, but Angus has certainly taken action. He took legal action against the school that he attended and won a significant settlement from them. He gave testimony to the Scottish Child Abuse Enquiry. Both of these actions took considerable courage. They meant confronting his own awful experience and the damage that it had done to him. They also meant taking on very powerful forces, which we can legitimately talk about as "the Establishment" in Scottish society. He has been prepared to be public about all that has happened to him and to engage with the media and with the police.

To his considerable credit he has not done all of this not in a spirit of retribution or revenge, but in a genuine effort to ensure that what happened to him will not happen to others. He is always positive and determined to discuss what can be done to improve the situation for young people in boarding schools now and in the future

He has also taken action to overcome his own trauma and talks interestingly and informatively about how he has done that, This is only one of the ways in which Angus's interview resonates far beyond the world of boarding schools. He is very aware that many of those who attended boarding school are not casualties as he was, but are damaged by the experience nonetheless. They still occupy a disproportionate number of key positions in our society and the damage that they carry is then transferred to wider society.

He is also describing bullying and the abuse of power which too many young people experience in other contexts, so this is an episode which has much for all of us to reflect on and learn from, regardless of our background.

Angus highlights the work of Seen & Heard https://seenheard.org.uk/ who have been a huge help to him and that of the Edinburgh Academy Survivors group https://easurvivors.info/

Angus is interested in sharing his experience and ideas more widely and can be contacted at angusjjbell@gmail.com

Upstart Scotland - https://upstart.scot/ - is a remarkable organisation. Here's the link to a very old video by way of introduction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMaxhELpG7I. It takes a special campaign to bring together academics, writers, educationalists, forest schoolers and police, but Upstart does that and more It has engaged parents and politicians and built partnerships to attempt to establish a Kindergarten stage and a later start to formal education in Scotland. What it hasn't managed to do is to make that change a reality and we hope that listeners will go online and sign their petition to the Scottish Parliament. You can hear Willie talk about that in the podcast.

What Willie also manages to do is to place the campaign in context. It is not simply about a structural change in education. It is about building resilience and agency in our children. It recognises the pace of change in our wider society which Willie likens to a speeding bullet train while change in education barely keeps pace with Stephenson's Rocket, which, as almost everyone will know, is an original train with no resemblance to a rocket. It recognises the loss of childhood, the mental health crisis and more. It is a wide-ranging discussion and an important one for all of us.

I am really proud that we have reached 20 episodes of this podcast and am very pleased that it is an interview with Jennie Seed, Deputy Headteacher at Carnoustie High School. Jennie is a classic example of someone meeting Jaz Ampaw Farr's challenge to us to be 10% braver.

Jennie is someone who has been prepared to learn from all sorts of experience, in practice, in reading and through learning from other people and then make the effort to translate that learning into meaningful change.

Jennie is someone who has overcome her own modesty and humility to become a leader, not because it would make a difference for her, but because it would make a difference for young people and for colleagues, She has a remarkable ability to bring together all of her learning and her personal awareness and experience and translate all of that into effective communication with colleagues. She is also someone with great natural insight. She understands the importance of getting the culture right and of winning hearts and minds.

As a result, the schools that she has worked in have made changes and made them successfully. She has excellent evidence that secondary schools can have a more caring, committed approach and still maintain an effective climate for learning. That flies in the face of a lot of the criticism that is widespread in Scotland of the alleged commitment to inclusion, positive relationships and more restorative practice. These approaches can be successful but they need to be based on respect and support for staff, thorough and sustained training, a willingness to listen, reflect and learn and make changes to the approach when necessary.

Helpfully, Jennie can talk about transition in two very different schools. It makes for a quietly inspirational conversation

Jennie makes some great links

Paul Dix -https://www.pauldix.org/

Nadine Burke Harris - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadine_Burke_Harris

Darren McGarvey - https://darrenmcgarvey.com/

Chris Kilkenny - https://x.com/KilkennyChris?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5hP0S0v8DE

Gabor Maté - https://drgabormate.com/

Nicky Murray - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGLGuco-L_g

Mark Finnis - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-finnis-46663414/?originalSubdomain=uk

https://l30relationalsystems.co.uk/services/education/

This episode is a treasure trove!!

I am always amazed at how many people are doing things to try to make Scotland a more caring, compassionate and just nation and the different ways that they find to do that. My guest on this episode is a classic example of this.

I wanted to have Laura McGlinn on the podcast because of the short film that she had made about Tina Hendry. Here is the comment about Tina from a blog on the Mind Waves site http://www.mindwavesnews.com/the-words-i-couldnt-say-my-tribute-to-tina-hendry-by-laura-mcglinn/

Tina Hendry was one of Scotland’s most vocal ACEs campaigners. She was talking about adverse childhood experiences long before there was a Scottish ACEs movement, and she had a massive impact on the spread of awareness of ACEs science across the country.

It is absolutely true. Tina played a remarkable role as a campaigner, carer, policewoman and more in making people think differently, raising awareness of the challenges that so many Scots faced and how we might address these challenges.

Laura's film had a big impact when it was shown at the ACEs Journey Gala Day in Cumbernauld in June this year and we focus a lot on that. Here is the link to the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aHqEjD7jl4. It is a lovely tribute to Tina.

Thankfully, we also find time to talk about Laura and all that she does to take action. Here is a taster

- She is involved with the Tannahill Centre which you can find out about here

https://share.google/jX8wagMfFrlDkfw35

- She is also involved with Mind Waves https://share.google/KJmXgvbGtGNIMXepm

Mind Waves received funding from See Me/SAMH and created "People Like Us" a Podcast series about the effects Poverty has on Mental Health across a diverse group of people and groups.

- She supports Jade Kilkenny and Amanda MacDonald and their Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/323891784826525/?ref=sharent
She has very open and supportive Instagram account https://www.instagram.com/p/CHVa3MrDMGe/

- and still finds time to run The MindfulImage which is a hashtag and brand associated with Laura McGlinn Photography It combines photography with mindfulness and wellbeing. The project focuses on using photography as a practice to connect with the world, ground individuals, and advocate for mental health. It is connected with the #TheWellbeingSignpost and #TheMindfulCharm hashtags.

https://www.facebook.com/share/1AB8ap9QWw/

As I said at the start of these show notes, there are lots of ways of taking action and Laura is certainly finding them

I am aware that the episodes of Taking Action are getting longer and this is one of the episodes that justifies that. Apart from the fact that Fiona Duncan, who led the Review leading to The Promise and is the Independent Strategic Advisor on The Promise, and advises Scottish Ministers in this capacity, is a very impressive guest - articulate, bright, committed and passionate with a total command of the interview - The Promise (https://thepromise.scot/) deserves time for exploration and update. It was a groundbreaking commitment to changing the way that Scotland takes care of all of its children and young people particularly those who are in the Care System. We know that we have done badly by these young people. A previous report was entitled "We can and must do better", but, in reality, it made littler no difference. Its title remained true.

The Promise was different. It involved people who were in, or had experience of, the Care System to a far greater extent and it did that more systematically. It brought together the voices of experience with those who had the executive capacity to change the system.

More than recommendations, it brought commitments. It was also impressive in the quality, and extent, of the documentation. It had seriousness and status.

It brought hope that, finally, we had a review that was really going to make a difference.

Unfortunately, optimism in Scotland can be short-lived. Perhaps our experience of other reviews has bred cynicism. We also live in a world that is obsessed with the short-term and is reluctant to engage with complexity. There is a sense that The Promise has had its day in the media spotlight unless it offers grounds for criticism of the government or those charged with ensuring that The Promise is kept.

There is also a natural and justified sense of urgency. We want to make changes for the young people who are in the system NOW, so I wanted to ask the question "what action is being taken?". That is what this episode does.

In response, there is a fascinating conversation about the complexity of making change, the circumstances in which we have been trying to make that change, the need for deep cultural changes as well as changes in policy and procedures and also about significant progress and essential groundwork in preparation for further change.

I really hope that people will listen to this podcast and visit The Promise website. The children to whom we have made The Promise are the children that we have taken responsibility for. We have decided that they are better in our care than that of their parents or other carers. That is not a responsibility we must take seriously. It is heartening and hopeful to hear how seriously Fiona Duncan takes it.