David Mindell is a historian, an engineer, a startup founder, a venture investor—and now the author of The New Lunar Society: An Englightenment Guide to the Next Industrial Revolution. The 2025 MIT Press volume is all about James Watt, Matthew Boulton, and the other inventors and entrepreneurs who kickstarted the first industrial revolution in Great Britain back in the late eighteenth century, and what they got right and what they missed about how technology can transform work and how to translate invention into social progress. But it’s also about how engineers innovate (or fail to innovate) today, and what they might learn or relearn if they took a look back at that founding generation of industrialists.

Mindell, who's been a friend ever since we were both doctoral students in MIT's Program in Science, Technology, and Society in the early 1990s, is the perfect guest for this 60th and final episode of Soonish. The show has always been motivated by a set of big questions: How is computing changing the nature of work, play, artistic expression, and communication? How can we design our cities, our transportation systems, and even our political systems to be more resilient? In an economy dominated by strife-fueled social media and rising technofeudalist empires, what's the future of democracy? How much of our techological future is predetermined, and how much of it can we shape proactively?

David brings to bear the tools of historical scholarship—along with his experience in engineering, academia, and the entrepreneurial world—to explore the same kinds of questions. This new book, in particular, asks how Watt, Boulton, and their colleagues distilled Enlightenment scientific values, hands-on experimentation, and collaboration into a set of founding principles for industrial society—and how can we rethink those principles for a world of labor scarcity, climate change, pandemics and other global disruptions, and burgeoning new technologies like artificial intelligence.

For show notes, links, and a full transcript of this episode, please visit https://www.soonishpodcast.org/soonish-517-what-it-takes-to-power-an-industrial-revolution

Today we're bringing you an episode of our sister Hub & Spoke show Rumble Strip, from producer Erica Heilman. It's a conversation with Jay Allison about public media—what it's for, why it's important, and what we stand to lose if the anti-intellectual MAGA right succeeds in killing it off.

Jay is an independent public radio producer who founded WCAI, a public radio station in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, as well as Transom, a resource and school for people learning how to make audio. He produces the Moth Radio Hour, he curated the recurrng feature "This I Believe" on NPR, and his work has won six Peabody awards, the highest awards in broadcasting. (Erica won a Peabody too, so these folks know whereof they speak!)

To me, Jay and Erica's conversation is a beautiful and elegant cri de coeur about public radio’s founding values, and it reminded me why I make audio and why I joined forces with the other folks at Hub & Spoke to try to create more space for indepencent voices in podcasting. At one point Erica asks Jay what’s so “public” about public radio and Jay answers that for him, it was about openness to all citizens who cared—he literally walked into NPR off the street and somebody gave him a recorder, showed him how to work it, and told him to go out and talk to people and bring back their stories. That dedication to public voices and public service persists, perhaps especially at stations in smaller or more remote markets—the same stations that might have to go off the air now that they're losing their federal funding. The big questions now are: How can we keep those stations alive? And what will public media look like after the current storm?

Thank you to Jay, who generously spent some time with me back in 2022 when I was looking for advice on how to raise money for Hub & Spoke, and thank you to Erica for making and sharing this episode. You can hear more Rumble Strip episodes at http://rumblestripvermont.com.

My guest this week, Adele Getty, is the author of A Sense of the Sacred and an educator in the field of assisted psychedelic therapy. Together with her husband Michael Williams, she started a non-profit here in Santa Fe called the Limina Foundation. Its mission is to support treatment for addiction and PTSD through both synthetic and plant-based psychedelic medicines.

On September 7, the foundation will host an event here in my adopted hometown of Santa Fe called The Enchanted State. That’s a play on New Mexico’s official nickname, which is the Land of Enchantment. But it’s also a nod to New Mexico’s growing role in the national conversation about whether and how substances like MDMA, mushrooms, and ibogaine should be legalized and regulated.

For thousands of years people have been ingesting compounds found in plants and fungi to facilitate religious ceremonies or help them access a kind of higher wisdom. In more modern times these substances have been used by people who want to explore their own inner psyches, or people who need help getting past addiction or deeply rooted psychological trauma. The US government criminalized the use and study of most psychedelics back in the 1960s. But in the last decade there’s been a major resurgence in interest in how they work and what they can teach us about consciousness or help us heal.

Michael Pollan’s books How to Change Your Mind and This Is Your Mind on Plants have both been huge bestsellers. And lawmakers in Oregon, Colorado, and now New Mexico have decriminalized certain psychedelics and begun to create frameworks for therapeutic use. Here in New Mexico, Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham signed a bill earlier this year called SB 219, the Medical Psilocybin Act, that sets up a regulated system for people with PTSD and substance abuse disorders to use mushrooms under the guidance of a licensed healthcare provider.

That was a big step and it means New Mexico has the opportunity to help lead the country toward a future where psychedelics and their benefits are better understood and more widely available. That’s why The Enchanted State event feels so timely, and it’s why I wanted to interview Adele.

Learn more about this episode at http://www.soonishpodcast.org.