Host Richard Ellis discusses claims from CEOs that “old SEO is dead” and interviews Michael Epps Utley, founder/CEO of GoEpps, who argues “SEO is dead, long live SEO,” with AEO (answer engine optimization) and GEO (generative engine optimization) becoming additions under the SEO umbrella. Utley distinguishes SEO as ranking in search, AEO as ranking in answers, and GEO as ranking in generated answers and sources, noting AI is additive to search and is changing website content toward novel questions and authoritative sourcing (e.g., data journalism). He describes GoEpps’ new AEO product that uses 180 external data points, aggregated into algorithms and metrics, to score brands and competitors from “how the internet sees” them. Key takeaways: stay broad and agile (“keep your knees bent”), expect to buy specialized solutions rather than build, avoid overreliance on new or incomplete metrics, and recognize marketing can’t mask poor operations as reputation becomes central.

Soundbites

1. "SEO is for ranking in search, AEO is for ranking in answers, and GEO is for ranking in generated answers, meaning their sources."
2. "We're not just thinking about keywords and how to be found for people using a search engine. We're also thinking, what do we bring that's new that answers a question nobody else is answering?"
3. "This is like lava in a volcano in Hawaii. It's coming down the mountainside and building new islands."
4. "People were always bouncing around to three or four places to validate something. Now we're seeing additional real estate be built for those interactions."
5. "The pace of change is more radical than people are giving it credit for, and it's going to be more the same than people realize."
6. "We can't live in what I call Pax Googliana, this era of peace where Google was the homepage of the internet. ChatGPT is arguably the homepage of the internet for a lot of people now. So is Grok."
7. "About 90% of companies and agencies are leaning to buy solutions to implement AI rather than build."
8. "In our family we have a saying: keep your knees bent. On boat day, if you're going to walk while the boat's moving, keep your knees bent. This is a keep your knees bent time."
9. "Don't have a quarterly meeting where you commit super hard to one new thing on ChatGPT, because they may flip it tomorrow."
10. "AI is too big a topic for a marketing coordinator, a marketing manager, and frankly a marketing director. Pushing it to one team member to figure out and bring back isn't good leadership."
11. "Marketing can't fix bad operations going forward. In the past marketing could shore up a delivery problem by keeping the inbox full of opportunities. Now reputation is absolutely front and center."
12. "Watch out for any one number that's a brand new metric that didn't exist six months ago, because that stuff's all just forming up right now."
13. "Adaptability and flexibility is just part of the human animal. I really believe the next generation is going to do some amazing stuff."

Michael's business, GoEpps: https://www.goepps.com/
Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

In this episode of Some Goodness, host Richard Ellis welcomes Michael Stahl, CEO of Wombat Data, to discuss why acquisitions often destroy value due to poor execution in the six to 18 months after close. Stahl explains why integration should be treated as an ongoing function that connects the operating model with M&A strategy, especially to build scalable revenue operations and link organic and inorganic growth. He describes integration as a phased, long-tail process with feedback loops to test underwriting theses and refine ideal target profiles, emphasizing data and CRM/system integration as prerequisites for collaboration. The conversation covers go-to-market alignment issues such as coverage strategy, overlays, comp models, minimizing disruption, and encouraging collaboration, plus cultural due diligence focused on day-to-day management rigor and data-driven practices.

Soundbites

• "There's no better way to identify areas that need improvement in a business than trying to explain to a company you buy how your business works."
• "You have to be able to clearly articulate how you run your business, how you run your sales motions, to be able to tell somebody else how to fold into it."
• "When we found it harder to explain or more difficult for a team to fold into, that's usually where we have to pay attention."
• "What happens in the corp dev decks and with the advisors doesn't always translate post close."
• "It's really important to acknowledge that it's a phased plan, that it also will feel a little awkward or clumsy at times as we bring two teams together."
• "It's not just change on the part of the target. It also requires change on the part of the buyer and the buyer's teams, because now we're bringing new people into the conversation."
• "We always wanted to try to err on the side of making decisions that were going to encourage collaboration rather than sort of be myopic and save in the short term."
• "A lot of the culture that I wanted to look at, particularly in a target, was how did they manage day to day. And was the way that we manage as a buyer going to be a culture shock for them?"
• "Is the juice worth the squeeze here? Are we spending the right time on the deals that create the most value and align with the strategy of the company?"
• "There's a phrase that I like. It sounds simple. It's just not easy."
• "That's how I define commitment with my team: awareness and intention. You have to be aware of what's going well, what's not, and then make intentional decisions about what to reinforce and where to course correct."
• "The data became the equalizer or the mediator."

Michael's business, Wombat Data: https://wombatdata.com
Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

Host Richard Ellis interviews Cody Lee, founder of Food Truck Club, a two-sided marketplace that makes booking food trucks for events fast and reliable across markets including Texas, Chicago, and Philadelphia; Cody explains how he “operationalized” an informal trusted intermediary in the food-truck ecosystem, why marketplaces require years to build trust on both sides, and how founder-level accountability restores loyalty. He shares an unconventional Amazon prospecting story, discusses market selection via demand/supply and culture, and closes with guidance that “sales is king” and trust must closely follow.

Soundbites

1. "You can build all the AI agents you want, we can have all the cool gadgets and CRMs out there, but you cannot replace trust."
2. "Trust is built even faster when mistakes happen and get corrected than just doing what you should be doing."
3. "Sales is king and trust is queen."
4. "Businesses typically take a few years to get off the ground, but marketplaces take on average seven years to be successful. Because you're trying to really build that trust."
5. "We say these names like Amazon or PepsiCo and we're trying to sell into these big names. But really it's Robert. It's Anne. There's somebody in there that just happens to work there that's a human. Even though they might have Deloitte in their email, it doesn't mean that they're anybody."
6. "I made an Amazon hat. You can buy the Amazon vests on amazon.com. I dressed like an Amazon employee, and I just walked in and nobody asked any questions... And 80% of the time I made the sale."
7. "Nobody is saying, 'Hey, my boss brought in pizza today' for the 100th time. Nobody's standing in front of the lunch room bragging in a selfie about the spread of Olive Garden in front of them. But everybody is posting a selfie in front of the food truck."
8. "The problems are there, but we just become sort of blind to it... The problem and the solution were already existing the whole time. We just operationalized it and pushed it."
9. "You just don't have people anymore visiting. You don't have people writing handwritten letters anymore. It sounds so small and basic that it seems like it wouldn't work, but it's the opposite."
10. "I see a lot of leaders get stuck in the thick of thin things, and really get into the minutia of something that's good, not great."

Cody’s business, Food Truck Club: https://app.foodtruckclub.com
Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com