“You can see how important storytelling is to fascism and to MAGA and to ICE. And that type of narrative is seductive to a whole lot of people, not just white people but to a lot of other people as well, and it's yoked to many other narratives around what is the United States, what is American power, what is going to benefit American power, what's going to erode American power. So there's a tremendous amount of phobia around who constitutes the other or the others to the United States, and it goes way, way back, obviously, to the origins of the country.” –Viet Thanh Nguyen

“This really is such a thread throughout the book. Solo el pueblo salva al pueblo, only we the people can save the people, has become a theme. Because what happened in 2025 through now is people were realizing, Who's coming to save us? The state is attacking us. When the state is attacking us, who do we turn to? We can only turn to one another. This was really remarkable, and I think it was such an important aspect to showcase because what it did was it gave people confidence. –Sonali Kolhatkar

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Sonali Kolhatkar and Viet Thanh Nguyen about a new book edited by Sonali entitled Breaking ICE: Community Defense Against State Terror and MAGA Fascism. The book is comprised of interviews Sonali conducted with activists, organizers, intellectuals and artists from a rich diversity of locations—from Chicago, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, and other major cities, to small towns in Georgia, Maine, the Carolinas, and elsewhere. We talk about the broad ideological formations that support State Terror and Fascism, as well as the ways people have wielded soft power with tactics and strategies such as mutual aid, Know Your Rights, power mapping, networking, and rapid response. Viet specifically talks about the power of counter-narratives that tap into radical imaginings and utopian thinking. We speak of the ways people from all walks of life have risen to the task of keeping each other safe.

(0:00) ICE, MAGA, Fascism, and American Power

(3:34) The Origins of the Anti-ICE Movement

(11:47) Soft Power and the National Day Laborer Organizing Network

(15:15) The Role of Social Media in Humanizing Immigrants

(19:43) Demographic Shifts and the Rise of Authoritarian Panic

(26:15) Individualism vs. Collectivist Culture

(32:19) Reevaluating Democratic Party Platforms and Abolition

(38:57) Challenging the United States in the Inter-American Courts

(42:40) Divesting from Militarism and Investing in Safety

(46:11) The Cyclical Nature of History and Enduring Resistance

Episode Website

www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
Instagram @speaking_out_of_place

“I think that Jews have become extremely solipsistic in a way that is embarrassing. It's very much contrary to the way I was brought up, which was not to talk about yourself, which was to talk about other people and to serve other people. That was part of the heritage that I received from the Holocaust and from my family's background as refugees was, “You're not a refugee. You've got it pretty good. You live in America.” We were very much exhorted against that and exhorted to serve other people and to try to do something good in the world. And so I hope this will be one tiny little part of something that will make a change for the Palestinians.”

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Benjamin Moser about his new book, Anti-Zionism: A Jewish History. A book of immense historical and geographic reach, Anti-Zionism conveys its arguments through the lives of twelve Jewish anti-Zionists. From the 19th century Polish-Jewish rabbi Aaron Samuel Tamares to the contemporary photographer and activist Nan Goldin, we learn how Jews have fought against the reduction of the traditional, expansive notion of Jewishness open to and in service to the world, to a form of narrow ethno-nationalism, closed off to all how do not subscribe to its genocidal settler colonial logic. We learn how many of these figures foretold precisely the perpetual cycles of violence Zionism has unleashed. One of the reasons Moser wrote this book is contained in this statement. I offer it as a contribution to the movement by so many noble people who are working to construct an alternative vision of Jewish life, one that is free from racism, nationalism, and militarism. It is an attempt to say, especially to younger people, that we are not the first, and that we do not need to start afresh.

(0:00) The Jewish Heritage of Service vs. Solipsism

(8:10) Theodor Herzl's Zionist Writings

(16:29) The Sensitive Rabbi: Aaron Samuel Tamares

(22:16) The Tragic Fate of Jacob Israël de Haan

(27:53) Hannah Arendt and the Backlash to Eichmann

(41:25) A Spiritual Catastrophe for Judaism

Episode Website

www.palumbo-liu.com

https://speakingoutofplace.com

Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social

Instagram @speaking_out_of_place

“I think first of all that in order to have disillusion, you need to have illusion and I really want to sort of take a stand in the name of being a delusional person, you know? I do think illusions are necessary to our sense of creativity, and we need to fall in love with extreme projects, and we need to have ideas that are sometimes unsustainable. We need to dream big in order to be creative and feel alive. The illusions that are a part of Aqua are larger illusions. They're illusions that have to do with my adult life. They're connected to nature and the presence or absence of water, the illusion that we can keep sustaining a city even though the water has run out.”

My guest today, Chiara Barzini, has spent her life navigating the literal and cultural fault lines between Italy and California. Today we will discuss her book, Aqua: A Story of Water and Lost Dreams, and her life as an artist living between two countries. In her acclaimed 2017 novel, Things That Happened Before the Earthquake, she wrote about arriving in the San Fernando Valley just weeks after a catastrophic natural disaster and the illusions of the '90s.

In Aqua, she examines nature, the California water crisis and the broken dreams of the Hollywood machine. We talk about family, film, art as an act of faith and our collective ecological coming of age, where the end of empire meets the end of abundance, and the consequences of hypercapitalism and colonialism. What does it mean to stare our illusions in the eye and find the courage to imagine a better future?

(0:00) The Necessity of Illusions

(1:40) Chiara Barzini, Author, Screenwriter

(4:44) The End of Empire and Ecological Anxiety

(12:15) The Allure and Cruelty of Capitalism

(16:07)   Aqua: A Reading - On Hollywood and Water

(21:02) Screenwriter Robert Towne and the Legacy of Chinatown

(26:20) AI Consumption and Water Bankruptcy

(30:23) The Edge of Apocalypse and Bombay Beach

(33:41) The Etruscans and the Art of Dying

(42:33) Translation and Creativity

(44:28) Raising Children in a Crazy World

(47:30) Poetry, Ruins, and The Waste Land

(57:33) Scents and Sounds of Rome and Los Angeles

(01:04:17) The Connection with Animals and Nature

(01:07:35) The Evolution of Love and Compassion

(01:09:17) The Memory Museum

(01:13:00) We Are in This Lifetime Together

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast