Episode Show Notes

Summary

In this episode, Dr. Chris Brown sits down with customer experience pioneer Annette Franz, author of Customer Understanding, Built to Win, and her latest book, Employee Understanding. Annette shares her journey from JD Power to becoming one of the leading voices on connecting employee experience, customer experience, and business outcomes. Together they explore the blind spots leaders have around culture, the three-pillar framework for employee understanding, and why listening—not surveys alone—is the foundation of sustainable success.

From the “Sunday Scaries Test” to the dangers of gaming metrics like NPS, this conversation is packed with practical insights for leaders who want to design people-centric cultures that drive performance.

Key Takeaways

• Employee experience is business critical: Without empowered employees, customer experience and business outcomes suffer.
• Culture is the shadow of the leader: Leaders shape or allow the culture—there is no middle ground.
• Three-pillar framework: Culture alignment, employee insights, and leadership empathy are the keys to designing great workplaces.
• Beware of “lipstick on a pig” fixes: Solve root causes, not symptoms, through service blueprinting and systemic problem-solving.
• Metrics can mislead: Chasing scores like NPS often backfires; focus on genuine experience improvements.
• Listen beyond surveys: Stay interviews, roundtables, and employee advisory boards are underused but powerful tools.
• Modernize or fossilize: Leaders must evolve their practices—or risk irrelevance.

Memorable Sound Bites

• “You get the culture you design—or the one you allow.”
• “Culture is truly the shadow of the leader.”
• “Stop asking in exit interviews why people left. Ask in stay interviews why they’re still here.”
• “When leaders beg for scores, you’re moving the metric—not the experience.”
• “If employees feel unsafe to speak up, all you’ll hear is crickets.”
• “Modernize or fossilize—that’s the choice facing today’s CEOs.”

Chapters

1. 00:00 – Introduction: Annette’s early career at JD Power and the origins of her CX journey.
2. 03:00 – Employee Blind Spots: Why leaders still struggle to connect employee experience with business performance.
3. 05:40 – The Sunday Scaries Test: How workplace culture impacts employees before Monday even begins.
4. 07:15 – Culture & Leadership: Why culture rests squarely on the shoulders of leaders.
5. 11:40 – The Three Pillars: Culture alignment, employee insights, and empathy in action.
6. 16:20 – Personas & Empathy: Bringing customers and employees to life inside organizations.
7. 21:30 – Connecting to Business Outcomes: Linking journey mapping and feedback to measurable ROI.
8. 27:20 – Goodhart’s Law & Metrics: How chasing numbers distorts reality.
9. 31:20 – Yes Madam Case Study: What not to do with employee feedback.
10. 35:20 – Lipstick on a Pig: Why surface fixes fail without root cause analysis.
11. 37:50 – Listening Beyond Surveys: Stay interviews, listening tours, and employee advisory boards.
12. 42:00 – Modernize or Fossilize: Annette’s open letter to CEOs.
13. 43:30 – AI & Human Connection: Where technology fits—and where it doesn’t.
14. 46:40 – Delta Airlines Example: A model of connecting culture, employees, and customers.
15. 48:30 – Closing Thoughts: Where to find Annette’s work and resources.

Summary

In this conversation, Dr. Chris L. Brown speaks with Jim Penman, the founder of Jim's Mowing, about his journey from academia to entrepreneurship. Jim shares insights into his early academic pursuits, the evolution of his business, and the core values that drive his franchise model. He emphasizes the importance of customer service, franchisee success, and the role of technology in enhancing customer experience. Jim also discusses his leadership style, character development, and the lessons learned from his business journey. The conversation concludes with Jim's vision for the future of his company and the importance of maintaining a strong company culture.

Takeaways

Jim's journey began with a PhD in personality and social change.
The success of Jim's Mowing is attributed to thousands of micro ideas.
Customer service is at the heart of Jim's business philosophy.
Franchisee welfare is prioritized over profits in Jim's model.
Understanding human nature is key to business success.
Servant leadership is a core principle for Jim.
Character development involves doing difficult but necessary tasks.
Technology is used to enhance customer experience and service delivery.
Learning from mistakes is crucial for growth in business.
Jim's vision for the future includes maintaining company culture and values.

Sound Bites

"I just can't stand to let a customer down."
"Happiness is never the primary goal."
"I don't want to be a public company."

Chapters

00:00 The Journey Begins: From Academia to Entrepreneurship
02:54 Building a Business: The Evolution of Jim's Mowing
06:01 Customer Service Philosophy: The Heart of Jim's Mowing
08:47 Franchisee Success: The Core Values of Jim's Mowing
11:59 Understanding Human Nature: Insights from Business and Research
15:49 Happiness and Well-being: The Pursuit of Meaningful Experiences
19:56 Servant Leadership: Leading with Purpose and Integrity
22:57 Character Development: The Importance of Discipline and Hard Choices
26:57 Innovating for Success: Enhancing Customer Satisfaction through Technology
32:44 Balancing Customer Service and Franchisee Profitability
34:43 The Importance of Responsiveness in Business
36:45 Leveraging Technology for Efficiency
38:04 AI in Customer Service: A Double-Edged Sword
43:13 Learning from Mistakes: The Journey of Growth
48:40 Building a Strong Company Culture
56:22 Future Vision: Sustaining Values and Growth

Any Dumbass Can Build a Great Culture: Leadership Lessons from WD-40's Garry Ridge

Episode Description

In this compelling episode of the Relentless Customer Leader podcast, host Dr. Chris Brown sits down with Garry Ridge, former CEO of WD-40 Company and author of "Any Dumbass Can Do It." During his remarkable 25-year tenure as CEO, Garry transformed a simple product into a global powerhouse spanning 176 countries, growing the company's market cap from $300 million to $3.6 billion.

Garry reveals the leadership philosophy that drove this success: creating a tribal culture where people feel they belong, matter, and can make choices without fear. Discover how reframing "failures" as "learning moments" and transforming "managers" into "coaches" helped build an organization where 98% of employees globally said they loved to tell people they worked for the company.

Whether you're leading a small team or a multinational corporation, you'll gain practical insights on balancing compassion with accountability, measuring cultural health in today's dispersed workforce, and creating environments where people can deliver their "personal magnificence." This episode delivers a masterclass in customer-centric leadership that drives both cultural and financial results.

Show Notes

Key Topics Covered

• 00:46 - The origin story of WD-40 and how it got its iconic name
• 02:19 - WD-40's unfair market advantages and unique positioning strategy
• 04:14 - Garry's new book "Any Dumbass Can Do It" and its provocative message
• 06:30 - Building a "tribe" versus a traditional workforce
• 09:43 - Transforming failures into "learning moments" to eliminate fear
• 12:12 - Balancing being "tough-minded and tender-hearted" in leadership
• 14:08 - How culture directly impacts financial results and business performance
• 18:03 - Measuring cultural health in modern, dispersed workforces
• 22:09 - The story of Garry riding a horse in armor into Times Square
• 24:46 - Maintaining humility in leadership ("Even the queen sits down to pee")
• 27:22 - Navigating cultural differences in global business
• 33:26 - The four corners of CEO responsibility and the loneliness of leadership
• 36:00 - Personal leadership development and embracing "dumbassery"
• 39:56 - Building psychological safety through trust and reducing fear

Notable Quotes

• "Life is about maximizing learning moments. Failures turn into successes if we look at them that way."
• "Great leadership is a balance between being tough-minded and tender-hearted."
• "Culture is not a microwaveable event. It takes a crockpot approach."
• "A great economic outcome is the will of the people times the strategy."
• "In organizations, most people don't lie. They fake and hide. And the reason they fake and hide is because of fear."
• "Have a heart of gold and a backbone of steel."
• "Even the queen sits down to pee." (On staying humble as a leader)

Resources Mentioned

• Book: "Any Dumbass Can Do It" by Garry Ridge
• WD-40 Company

About Garry Ridge

Garry Ridge served as CEO of WD-40 Company for 25 years, growing the market cap from $300 million to $3.6 billion. An Australian native who relocated to the US, Garry transformed WD-40's organizational culture by focusing on creating a tribal environment where people feel they belong, matter, and can learn without fear. He currently coaches CEOs and is dedicated to helping leaders build cultures of belonging "where love, forgiveness, and learning inspire a happier, more connected world."

Connect With Us

• Website: https://relentlesscustomerleader.transistor.fm/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherlbrown/
• Twitter/X: https://x.com/marketculture

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